Commentary: Weintraub’s Critique of Davis Fails to Understand the Fundamentals of Liberalism

I read Daniel Weintraub’s critique of Davis in the Sacramento Bee: “Liberal town? Davis is white, wealthy and conservative” with somewhat mixed emotions.

After all I have been a strong critic of Davis’ liberal persona at times. In fact, I was quoted in the Bee in January saying:

“Davis isn’t as liberal as it thinks.”

The irony however is that when I say that “Davis isn’t as liberal as it thinks”, I am in large part talking about the opposite things that Weintraub is talking about.

As many know, one of my main critiques of Davis has been the failure by some in this community to acknowledge what I have termed “the dark underbelly.” The portion of Davis beneath the liberal veneer, that can allow incidents of racism and intolerance to brew without scrutiny. The denial on the part of some as to whether there have been problems in the past with practices by some police officers that call for police oversight. The problems that we have seen in the last year at the high school and junior high with racial incidence of intolerance and bigotry. The failure by school administrators to properly handle these incidents. These are parts of my critique on the persona of liberal Davis.

However, another aspect of this critique is in many ways the inconsistency between public rhetoric by officials and government policy. We see at the same time, members of the Davis City Council talking about environmentalism, talking about global warming, but at the same time supporting massive developments that will lead inevitably to traffic and pollution problems. Supporting the building of big-box retail stores that are globally unsustainable and add vastly to our carbon footprint both as a community and globally. There is a fundamental incompatibility with the expressed concern for global warming and the support for unsustainable policies at home.

Again this is my critique of Davis. Weintraub is complaining about Davis because Davis has failed to grow fast enough for his liking apparently–this in itself is somewhat of a myth. In the 1950s, Davis was a town of a few thousand people and it has grown to a town of nearly 70,000. Contrary to the slow-growth myth, Davis has been a city that has grown rapidly.

The editorial cites Supervisor Helen Thomson’s daughter as not being able to buy a home in Davis–a topic that Supervisor Thomson brought up at the Board of Supervisor’s meeting last week and that I criticized on this blog during that meeting. In fact, a friend drove me through a Davis neighborhood near the Covell site and I saw a large number of homes that Supervisor Thomson’s daughter could afford–unfortunately, she was looking for them at the wrong time it seems. The housing market is considerably better now than it was a few years back.

Moreover, the solution to the problem of housing is not the kind of developments put forward by Supervisor Helen Thomson either at Covell Village which she supported or the county level which were shelved.

Mr. Weintraub writes:

“When Helen Thomson’s daughter went looking for housing a few years ago in her native Davis, the cheapest thing she could find was a half-million-dollar fixer-upper.

The home reeked from the smell of too many cats, and the floors sloped. “If you dropped a marble at the front door,” Thomson says, “it would roll through the house and into the back yard.” Her daughter settled for a house in West Sacramento instead.”

In fact, had Covell Village gone through, that is what largely would have been built–absent the cat odor.

The irony is that Davis is hardly alone in Northern California in terms of unaffordability of homes–and those communities largely run the gamut in terms of ethnicity and growth policies. The Bay Area particularly the east and south bay have had large growth and remain highly unaffordable. The basic problem is that demand exceeds supply and that will largely be the case regardless of growth policies–unless Davis is to grow so fast that it becomes more like Lodi and less like Davis. Is that really what we are aiming for?

I am still unclear as to how supporting sustainable growth, agricultural preservation, and environmental protection policies makes Davis conservative?

Have we changed our definitions here to make developers the vanguard of liberalism? To be liberal means to support rapid growth, paving over of agricultural land and nature preserves?

The irony of this is that the projects that have been supported would be building homes that are very large. These policies involve building homes that cost well over what Supervisor Thomson’s daughter could afford. And in reality, they involve building homes that would house largely Republicans rather than Democrats.

And Mr. Weintraub believes that would be the hallmark of liberalism? By what grounds?

As Mr. Weintraub suggests:

“While the rest of California becomes more ethnically and economically diverse, Davis remains a mostly white enclave for wealthy, highly educated people… The city is 70 percent white and 17 percent Asian American, but fewer than 3 percent of its residents are African American and only about 10 percent are Latino.”

In fact, as someone pointed out recently, Davis does remain ethnically less diverse than other areas of California, however, that does not mean it has not become more ethnically diverse than it had been. The figure of 70 percent white actually represents a strong downturn in the white population that in the 1980s stood over 90 percent.

Weintraub’s solution like that of the Supervisor’s last week is massive housing developments which would destroy the character of Davis.

I think there are a number of ways that we can have a larger and more diverse housing market without the massive developments, without building more $600,000 homes, without paving over prime agricultural land. I challenge our leaders to be creative and find news ways to do this. But I admonish people like Daniel Weintraub who suggest that if we do not follow the models by other communities to build, build, build, that makes us a bunch of rich conservatives.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

Author

  • David Greenwald

    Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

    View all posts

Categories:

Land Use/Open Space

268 comments

  1. I think Weintraub’s critique contains a lot of ugly truths that the citizens of Davis must understand that they’ve come to represent.

    A large number of readers of this column have never seen a development that they could support – this is from a sample that contains many proposals over many years. If the proposal is on the periphery, it causes traffic problems and takes away prime ag lands (which we should actually be doing in CA because there is far too little water in this state to be flood irrigating crops like alfalfa). If the development is 4 – 5 story building downtown, it destroys the charming character of the Davis and must be built with setbacks and common areas that have long been proven to be detrimental to the survival of the tenants, and require more land (less dense) and force rents to be higher than they otherwise should. And if it is Target, amongst other things, then according to DPD, it is fundamentally unsustainable and promotes global warming (not sure I get how having lots of small family owned business helps vis a vis Target), but nonetheless, another development that the “progressive” (read – nothing should ever change) group that prides themselves as being the Vanguard of Davis, can’t support. Finally, if someone, namely a developer, expects to make a dime of profit on a project, then this group also rings out in Robinhood like fashion to stop the travesty. It this preoccupation with profits that I really don’t get.

    Vanguardians – please understand that what is unsustainable is the Davis that you claim to be trying t protect. The forces of markets, capitalism and change will continue, and over time, Davis must progress or it will be left behind. You can already see it happening. We have racial diversity that you should be ashamed of – not, as DPD writes, in response to Weintraub, that it’s not as bad as it used to be”. And while DPD is correct to point out that many parts of CA have very high home prices, it doesn’t mean that it is an admirable result that Davis has much higher prices and be much less affordable than all of the surrounding communities.

    There is a dark underbelly in Davis, but not in what DPD spends his time worrying about. The Vanguardians would have a much better chance of having a community that is sustainable and viable if they would spend some time examining and exposing their own motives, and then develop some growth propals that can actually be developed and thrive. That would be a much more positive use of energy as opposed to casting doubt and suspicion people like Yamada, Thomson,Saylor and Souza.

  2. I think Weintraub’s critique contains a lot of ugly truths that the citizens of Davis must understand that they’ve come to represent.

    A large number of readers of this column have never seen a development that they could support – this is from a sample that contains many proposals over many years. If the proposal is on the periphery, it causes traffic problems and takes away prime ag lands (which we should actually be doing in CA because there is far too little water in this state to be flood irrigating crops like alfalfa). If the development is 4 – 5 story building downtown, it destroys the charming character of the Davis and must be built with setbacks and common areas that have long been proven to be detrimental to the survival of the tenants, and require more land (less dense) and force rents to be higher than they otherwise should. And if it is Target, amongst other things, then according to DPD, it is fundamentally unsustainable and promotes global warming (not sure I get how having lots of small family owned business helps vis a vis Target), but nonetheless, another development that the “progressive” (read – nothing should ever change) group that prides themselves as being the Vanguard of Davis, can’t support. Finally, if someone, namely a developer, expects to make a dime of profit on a project, then this group also rings out in Robinhood like fashion to stop the travesty. It this preoccupation with profits that I really don’t get.

    Vanguardians – please understand that what is unsustainable is the Davis that you claim to be trying t protect. The forces of markets, capitalism and change will continue, and over time, Davis must progress or it will be left behind. You can already see it happening. We have racial diversity that you should be ashamed of – not, as DPD writes, in response to Weintraub, that it’s not as bad as it used to be”. And while DPD is correct to point out that many parts of CA have very high home prices, it doesn’t mean that it is an admirable result that Davis has much higher prices and be much less affordable than all of the surrounding communities.

    There is a dark underbelly in Davis, but not in what DPD spends his time worrying about. The Vanguardians would have a much better chance of having a community that is sustainable and viable if they would spend some time examining and exposing their own motives, and then develop some growth propals that can actually be developed and thrive. That would be a much more positive use of energy as opposed to casting doubt and suspicion people like Yamada, Thomson,Saylor and Souza.

  3. I think Weintraub’s critique contains a lot of ugly truths that the citizens of Davis must understand that they’ve come to represent.

    A large number of readers of this column have never seen a development that they could support – this is from a sample that contains many proposals over many years. If the proposal is on the periphery, it causes traffic problems and takes away prime ag lands (which we should actually be doing in CA because there is far too little water in this state to be flood irrigating crops like alfalfa). If the development is 4 – 5 story building downtown, it destroys the charming character of the Davis and must be built with setbacks and common areas that have long been proven to be detrimental to the survival of the tenants, and require more land (less dense) and force rents to be higher than they otherwise should. And if it is Target, amongst other things, then according to DPD, it is fundamentally unsustainable and promotes global warming (not sure I get how having lots of small family owned business helps vis a vis Target), but nonetheless, another development that the “progressive” (read – nothing should ever change) group that prides themselves as being the Vanguard of Davis, can’t support. Finally, if someone, namely a developer, expects to make a dime of profit on a project, then this group also rings out in Robinhood like fashion to stop the travesty. It this preoccupation with profits that I really don’t get.

    Vanguardians – please understand that what is unsustainable is the Davis that you claim to be trying t protect. The forces of markets, capitalism and change will continue, and over time, Davis must progress or it will be left behind. You can already see it happening. We have racial diversity that you should be ashamed of – not, as DPD writes, in response to Weintraub, that it’s not as bad as it used to be”. And while DPD is correct to point out that many parts of CA have very high home prices, it doesn’t mean that it is an admirable result that Davis has much higher prices and be much less affordable than all of the surrounding communities.

    There is a dark underbelly in Davis, but not in what DPD spends his time worrying about. The Vanguardians would have a much better chance of having a community that is sustainable and viable if they would spend some time examining and exposing their own motives, and then develop some growth propals that can actually be developed and thrive. That would be a much more positive use of energy as opposed to casting doubt and suspicion people like Yamada, Thomson,Saylor and Souza.

  4. I think Weintraub’s critique contains a lot of ugly truths that the citizens of Davis must understand that they’ve come to represent.

    A large number of readers of this column have never seen a development that they could support – this is from a sample that contains many proposals over many years. If the proposal is on the periphery, it causes traffic problems and takes away prime ag lands (which we should actually be doing in CA because there is far too little water in this state to be flood irrigating crops like alfalfa). If the development is 4 – 5 story building downtown, it destroys the charming character of the Davis and must be built with setbacks and common areas that have long been proven to be detrimental to the survival of the tenants, and require more land (less dense) and force rents to be higher than they otherwise should. And if it is Target, amongst other things, then according to DPD, it is fundamentally unsustainable and promotes global warming (not sure I get how having lots of small family owned business helps vis a vis Target), but nonetheless, another development that the “progressive” (read – nothing should ever change) group that prides themselves as being the Vanguard of Davis, can’t support. Finally, if someone, namely a developer, expects to make a dime of profit on a project, then this group also rings out in Robinhood like fashion to stop the travesty. It this preoccupation with profits that I really don’t get.

    Vanguardians – please understand that what is unsustainable is the Davis that you claim to be trying t protect. The forces of markets, capitalism and change will continue, and over time, Davis must progress or it will be left behind. You can already see it happening. We have racial diversity that you should be ashamed of – not, as DPD writes, in response to Weintraub, that it’s not as bad as it used to be”. And while DPD is correct to point out that many parts of CA have very high home prices, it doesn’t mean that it is an admirable result that Davis has much higher prices and be much less affordable than all of the surrounding communities.

    There is a dark underbelly in Davis, but not in what DPD spends his time worrying about. The Vanguardians would have a much better chance of having a community that is sustainable and viable if they would spend some time examining and exposing their own motives, and then develop some growth propals that can actually be developed and thrive. That would be a much more positive use of energy as opposed to casting doubt and suspicion people like Yamada, Thomson,Saylor and Souza.

  5. Dear Anonymous: Do you believe that those Developer Democrats think adding those large projects to Davis, with the traffic, smog, and other detrimental environmental effects, is a good thing?? The politicos need the cash to fund their aspirations. The land deveopers have it. It’s a simple equation. Have you ever been directly involved in a Davis political campaign? Don’t you realize that the developers “bundle” those $100 checks from all their friends, employees, adult kids, etc.?

  6. Dear Anonymous: Do you believe that those Developer Democrats think adding those large projects to Davis, with the traffic, smog, and other detrimental environmental effects, is a good thing?? The politicos need the cash to fund their aspirations. The land deveopers have it. It’s a simple equation. Have you ever been directly involved in a Davis political campaign? Don’t you realize that the developers “bundle” those $100 checks from all their friends, employees, adult kids, etc.?

  7. Dear Anonymous: Do you believe that those Developer Democrats think adding those large projects to Davis, with the traffic, smog, and other detrimental environmental effects, is a good thing?? The politicos need the cash to fund their aspirations. The land deveopers have it. It’s a simple equation. Have you ever been directly involved in a Davis political campaign? Don’t you realize that the developers “bundle” those $100 checks from all their friends, employees, adult kids, etc.?

  8. Dear Anonymous: Do you believe that those Developer Democrats think adding those large projects to Davis, with the traffic, smog, and other detrimental environmental effects, is a good thing?? The politicos need the cash to fund their aspirations. The land deveopers have it. It’s a simple equation. Have you ever been directly involved in a Davis political campaign? Don’t you realize that the developers “bundle” those $100 checks from all their friends, employees, adult kids, etc.?

  9. Anonoymous, although you raise some legitimate concerns, your basic premise is flawed. Indeed if the marketplace of Davis housing were expanded, there is no guarantee that the buyers of those houses would substantially change the racial and ethnic composition of the community. The magnet that brings people to Davis is its University. My wife and I have earned undergraduate and graduate degrees from three Ivy League universities, and the quality of education my wife got at UCD was in her opinion the best she had ever received.

    That kind of educational quality is a powerful magnet that will have a huge effect on the people who make offers on, and buy any new houses added to Davis.

    Davis will continue to diversify racially and ethnically, but it is highly unlikely to diversify educationally. Mr. Weintraub choses to ignore that reality. Perhaps he would really like UCDavis to shut its doors. That event would accomplish the ends he advocates.

  10. Anonoymous, although you raise some legitimate concerns, your basic premise is flawed. Indeed if the marketplace of Davis housing were expanded, there is no guarantee that the buyers of those houses would substantially change the racial and ethnic composition of the community. The magnet that brings people to Davis is its University. My wife and I have earned undergraduate and graduate degrees from three Ivy League universities, and the quality of education my wife got at UCD was in her opinion the best she had ever received.

    That kind of educational quality is a powerful magnet that will have a huge effect on the people who make offers on, and buy any new houses added to Davis.

    Davis will continue to diversify racially and ethnically, but it is highly unlikely to diversify educationally. Mr. Weintraub choses to ignore that reality. Perhaps he would really like UCDavis to shut its doors. That event would accomplish the ends he advocates.

  11. Anonoymous, although you raise some legitimate concerns, your basic premise is flawed. Indeed if the marketplace of Davis housing were expanded, there is no guarantee that the buyers of those houses would substantially change the racial and ethnic composition of the community. The magnet that brings people to Davis is its University. My wife and I have earned undergraduate and graduate degrees from three Ivy League universities, and the quality of education my wife got at UCD was in her opinion the best she had ever received.

    That kind of educational quality is a powerful magnet that will have a huge effect on the people who make offers on, and buy any new houses added to Davis.

    Davis will continue to diversify racially and ethnically, but it is highly unlikely to diversify educationally. Mr. Weintraub choses to ignore that reality. Perhaps he would really like UCDavis to shut its doors. That event would accomplish the ends he advocates.

  12. Anonoymous, although you raise some legitimate concerns, your basic premise is flawed. Indeed if the marketplace of Davis housing were expanded, there is no guarantee that the buyers of those houses would substantially change the racial and ethnic composition of the community. The magnet that brings people to Davis is its University. My wife and I have earned undergraduate and graduate degrees from three Ivy League universities, and the quality of education my wife got at UCD was in her opinion the best she had ever received.

    That kind of educational quality is a powerful magnet that will have a huge effect on the people who make offers on, and buy any new houses added to Davis.

    Davis will continue to diversify racially and ethnically, but it is highly unlikely to diversify educationally. Mr. Weintraub choses to ignore that reality. Perhaps he would really like UCDavis to shut its doors. That event would accomplish the ends he advocates.

  13. Weintaub’s tirade joins the increase in Vanguard postings that reflected the impotent frustration that Helen Thomson and the local political machine(owned by developer-interests)feel as the Davis voters successfully stood up to their threats. The dark underbelly of Davis is also the fact that, if left unchallenged, developer interests will run our town. Like our reluctance to believe that our Davis would be infected with racial and class bigotry, we also like to labor under the delusion that our politics is “pure”, somehow different from the local politics of other Central Valley communities. Davis voters pull their pants on,one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have a mix of political motivations. On the whole, I’m proud to be one of them.

  14. Weintaub’s tirade joins the increase in Vanguard postings that reflected the impotent frustration that Helen Thomson and the local political machine(owned by developer-interests)feel as the Davis voters successfully stood up to their threats. The dark underbelly of Davis is also the fact that, if left unchallenged, developer interests will run our town. Like our reluctance to believe that our Davis would be infected with racial and class bigotry, we also like to labor under the delusion that our politics is “pure”, somehow different from the local politics of other Central Valley communities. Davis voters pull their pants on,one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have a mix of political motivations. On the whole, I’m proud to be one of them.

  15. Weintaub’s tirade joins the increase in Vanguard postings that reflected the impotent frustration that Helen Thomson and the local political machine(owned by developer-interests)feel as the Davis voters successfully stood up to their threats. The dark underbelly of Davis is also the fact that, if left unchallenged, developer interests will run our town. Like our reluctance to believe that our Davis would be infected with racial and class bigotry, we also like to labor under the delusion that our politics is “pure”, somehow different from the local politics of other Central Valley communities. Davis voters pull their pants on,one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have a mix of political motivations. On the whole, I’m proud to be one of them.

  16. Weintaub’s tirade joins the increase in Vanguard postings that reflected the impotent frustration that Helen Thomson and the local political machine(owned by developer-interests)feel as the Davis voters successfully stood up to their threats. The dark underbelly of Davis is also the fact that, if left unchallenged, developer interests will run our town. Like our reluctance to believe that our Davis would be infected with racial and class bigotry, we also like to labor under the delusion that our politics is “pure”, somehow different from the local politics of other Central Valley communities. Davis voters pull their pants on,one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They have a mix of political motivations. On the whole, I’m proud to be one of them.

  17. Although stated many times before, this simple concept bears repeating:

    Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA). In the long run, there are only two ways to reduce the Davis home price premium:

    1) make other areas more desirable
    2) make Davis less desirable

    I prefer the first option, but that would mean Mike McGowan and his ilk would have to clean their own houses, rather than sling mud at ours.

  18. Although stated many times before, this simple concept bears repeating:

    Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA). In the long run, there are only two ways to reduce the Davis home price premium:

    1) make other areas more desirable
    2) make Davis less desirable

    I prefer the first option, but that would mean Mike McGowan and his ilk would have to clean their own houses, rather than sling mud at ours.

  19. Although stated many times before, this simple concept bears repeating:

    Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA). In the long run, there are only two ways to reduce the Davis home price premium:

    1) make other areas more desirable
    2) make Davis less desirable

    I prefer the first option, but that would mean Mike McGowan and his ilk would have to clean their own houses, rather than sling mud at ours.

  20. Although stated many times before, this simple concept bears repeating:

    Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA). In the long run, there are only two ways to reduce the Davis home price premium:

    1) make other areas more desirable
    2) make Davis less desirable

    I prefer the first option, but that would mean Mike McGowan and his ilk would have to clean their own houses, rather than sling mud at ours.

  21. It’ simple really. Following a no-growth policy is a conservative economic policy. It preserves and promotes high property values, which always tends to favor the wealthier, entrenched interests. The same goes for the no growth policy on retail. It drives up retail prices in Davis and the cost to live here, due to lack of competition. If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot. The higher costs for shopping in Davis are disadvantageous to lower income people and make it harder to live here. Demographically, non-whites, non-Asians tend to have lower incomes than whites. Hence, the conservative economic policies contribute to one of the “underbelly” issues like lack of diversity. There is very little industry in Davis, and if factory tried to locate here, the “progressives” would throw a fit. So people of lesser means or education or talent see a more limited choice in terms of jobs in Davis, again contributing to the economic conservatism and making it more difficult for them to live here or integrate into the community. It’s not just the housing development issue, it’s the whole combined set of policies. I don’t see how that can be anything other than obvious.

    Also, why is it that anyone who expresses a view different from the “progressive” mantra on this blog, is attacked personally? Why is it ok to automatically assume they are surreptitiously promoting large developer interests, rather than providing informed critique, or a different set of world views. This site provides a useful set of discussion and analysis, but it is ridiculously unprofessional in how it treats people in the community. For example, the celebration of Jim Provenza and Lamar Heystek meeting with Mariko Yomada to influence her on the eve of the Supervisors meeting. While most of us celebrate both the intent and apparent results of that meeting, how would DPD have written the article if any other political faction or person met with her on the eve of the meeting? I could see the headline….”Don Saylor attempts to spread his developer-financed views to Mariko,” or something like that. It would be both professional refreshing if the debate could stick to the issues rather than to personal attack and attempted intimidation of anyone who happens to disagree, or who thinks projects like the 3rd and B one are an improvement to the City of Davis.

  22. It’ simple really. Following a no-growth policy is a conservative economic policy. It preserves and promotes high property values, which always tends to favor the wealthier, entrenched interests. The same goes for the no growth policy on retail. It drives up retail prices in Davis and the cost to live here, due to lack of competition. If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot. The higher costs for shopping in Davis are disadvantageous to lower income people and make it harder to live here. Demographically, non-whites, non-Asians tend to have lower incomes than whites. Hence, the conservative economic policies contribute to one of the “underbelly” issues like lack of diversity. There is very little industry in Davis, and if factory tried to locate here, the “progressives” would throw a fit. So people of lesser means or education or talent see a more limited choice in terms of jobs in Davis, again contributing to the economic conservatism and making it more difficult for them to live here or integrate into the community. It’s not just the housing development issue, it’s the whole combined set of policies. I don’t see how that can be anything other than obvious.

    Also, why is it that anyone who expresses a view different from the “progressive” mantra on this blog, is attacked personally? Why is it ok to automatically assume they are surreptitiously promoting large developer interests, rather than providing informed critique, or a different set of world views. This site provides a useful set of discussion and analysis, but it is ridiculously unprofessional in how it treats people in the community. For example, the celebration of Jim Provenza and Lamar Heystek meeting with Mariko Yomada to influence her on the eve of the Supervisors meeting. While most of us celebrate both the intent and apparent results of that meeting, how would DPD have written the article if any other political faction or person met with her on the eve of the meeting? I could see the headline….”Don Saylor attempts to spread his developer-financed views to Mariko,” or something like that. It would be both professional refreshing if the debate could stick to the issues rather than to personal attack and attempted intimidation of anyone who happens to disagree, or who thinks projects like the 3rd and B one are an improvement to the City of Davis.

  23. It’ simple really. Following a no-growth policy is a conservative economic policy. It preserves and promotes high property values, which always tends to favor the wealthier, entrenched interests. The same goes for the no growth policy on retail. It drives up retail prices in Davis and the cost to live here, due to lack of competition. If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot. The higher costs for shopping in Davis are disadvantageous to lower income people and make it harder to live here. Demographically, non-whites, non-Asians tend to have lower incomes than whites. Hence, the conservative economic policies contribute to one of the “underbelly” issues like lack of diversity. There is very little industry in Davis, and if factory tried to locate here, the “progressives” would throw a fit. So people of lesser means or education or talent see a more limited choice in terms of jobs in Davis, again contributing to the economic conservatism and making it more difficult for them to live here or integrate into the community. It’s not just the housing development issue, it’s the whole combined set of policies. I don’t see how that can be anything other than obvious.

    Also, why is it that anyone who expresses a view different from the “progressive” mantra on this blog, is attacked personally? Why is it ok to automatically assume they are surreptitiously promoting large developer interests, rather than providing informed critique, or a different set of world views. This site provides a useful set of discussion and analysis, but it is ridiculously unprofessional in how it treats people in the community. For example, the celebration of Jim Provenza and Lamar Heystek meeting with Mariko Yomada to influence her on the eve of the Supervisors meeting. While most of us celebrate both the intent and apparent results of that meeting, how would DPD have written the article if any other political faction or person met with her on the eve of the meeting? I could see the headline….”Don Saylor attempts to spread his developer-financed views to Mariko,” or something like that. It would be both professional refreshing if the debate could stick to the issues rather than to personal attack and attempted intimidation of anyone who happens to disagree, or who thinks projects like the 3rd and B one are an improvement to the City of Davis.

  24. It’ simple really. Following a no-growth policy is a conservative economic policy. It preserves and promotes high property values, which always tends to favor the wealthier, entrenched interests. The same goes for the no growth policy on retail. It drives up retail prices in Davis and the cost to live here, due to lack of competition. If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot. The higher costs for shopping in Davis are disadvantageous to lower income people and make it harder to live here. Demographically, non-whites, non-Asians tend to have lower incomes than whites. Hence, the conservative economic policies contribute to one of the “underbelly” issues like lack of diversity. There is very little industry in Davis, and if factory tried to locate here, the “progressives” would throw a fit. So people of lesser means or education or talent see a more limited choice in terms of jobs in Davis, again contributing to the economic conservatism and making it more difficult for them to live here or integrate into the community. It’s not just the housing development issue, it’s the whole combined set of policies. I don’t see how that can be anything other than obvious.

    Also, why is it that anyone who expresses a view different from the “progressive” mantra on this blog, is attacked personally? Why is it ok to automatically assume they are surreptitiously promoting large developer interests, rather than providing informed critique, or a different set of world views. This site provides a useful set of discussion and analysis, but it is ridiculously unprofessional in how it treats people in the community. For example, the celebration of Jim Provenza and Lamar Heystek meeting with Mariko Yomada to influence her on the eve of the Supervisors meeting. While most of us celebrate both the intent and apparent results of that meeting, how would DPD have written the article if any other political faction or person met with her on the eve of the meeting? I could see the headline….”Don Saylor attempts to spread his developer-financed views to Mariko,” or something like that. It would be both professional refreshing if the debate could stick to the issues rather than to personal attack and attempted intimidation of anyone who happens to disagree, or who thinks projects like the 3rd and B one are an improvement to the City of Davis.

  25. Weintraub is dead right. The self-appointed “Davisites,” who don’t regard Mace Ranch or anything south of I-80 as “real” Davis, talk a great game about sustainability, but they’ve just never seen a development they could approve.

    Not the University Commons/Borders, now a magnet that draws people downtown.
    Not the University’s West Village.
    Not Covell Village, despite the imprint of Mike Corbett, developer or the ur-Davis Village Homes.
    Not any kind of redevelopment at Third and B.
    Not so much as lowering a freaking window on a nondescript downtown building!

  26. Anonoymous, your post paints the choices in manichean terms. The Target decision wasn’t a simple either-or, good-evil choice. I don’t argue with your criticism of the physical layout of Ace Hardware, but that is an accident of history rather than a conscious decision by its owners. The arrival of Target and stores like it on the periphery of Davis will certainly damage the viability of the Davis downtown economic zone. Continuing to pay somewhat higher prices for the items those downtown businesses sell is an economic investment on the part of Davis’ residents in the viability of its economic core. I for one believe patronizing the businesses of the town one lives in is part of the civic responsibility of citizenship.

    Now with that said, the reality is that if 5,000 homes were added to Davis over the next 12 months, the people who would be at the head of the line to put offers in on those homes would be people who value the things that currently make Davis what it is … a college town, with great schools and a near perfect climate.

  27. Weintraub is dead right. The self-appointed “Davisites,” who don’t regard Mace Ranch or anything south of I-80 as “real” Davis, talk a great game about sustainability, but they’ve just never seen a development they could approve.

    Not the University Commons/Borders, now a magnet that draws people downtown.
    Not the University’s West Village.
    Not Covell Village, despite the imprint of Mike Corbett, developer or the ur-Davis Village Homes.
    Not any kind of redevelopment at Third and B.
    Not so much as lowering a freaking window on a nondescript downtown building!

  28. Anonoymous, your post paints the choices in manichean terms. The Target decision wasn’t a simple either-or, good-evil choice. I don’t argue with your criticism of the physical layout of Ace Hardware, but that is an accident of history rather than a conscious decision by its owners. The arrival of Target and stores like it on the periphery of Davis will certainly damage the viability of the Davis downtown economic zone. Continuing to pay somewhat higher prices for the items those downtown businesses sell is an economic investment on the part of Davis’ residents in the viability of its economic core. I for one believe patronizing the businesses of the town one lives in is part of the civic responsibility of citizenship.

    Now with that said, the reality is that if 5,000 homes were added to Davis over the next 12 months, the people who would be at the head of the line to put offers in on those homes would be people who value the things that currently make Davis what it is … a college town, with great schools and a near perfect climate.

  29. Weintraub is dead right. The self-appointed “Davisites,” who don’t regard Mace Ranch or anything south of I-80 as “real” Davis, talk a great game about sustainability, but they’ve just never seen a development they could approve.

    Not the University Commons/Borders, now a magnet that draws people downtown.
    Not the University’s West Village.
    Not Covell Village, despite the imprint of Mike Corbett, developer or the ur-Davis Village Homes.
    Not any kind of redevelopment at Third and B.
    Not so much as lowering a freaking window on a nondescript downtown building!

  30. Anonoymous, your post paints the choices in manichean terms. The Target decision wasn’t a simple either-or, good-evil choice. I don’t argue with your criticism of the physical layout of Ace Hardware, but that is an accident of history rather than a conscious decision by its owners. The arrival of Target and stores like it on the periphery of Davis will certainly damage the viability of the Davis downtown economic zone. Continuing to pay somewhat higher prices for the items those downtown businesses sell is an economic investment on the part of Davis’ residents in the viability of its economic core. I for one believe patronizing the businesses of the town one lives in is part of the civic responsibility of citizenship.

    Now with that said, the reality is that if 5,000 homes were added to Davis over the next 12 months, the people who would be at the head of the line to put offers in on those homes would be people who value the things that currently make Davis what it is … a college town, with great schools and a near perfect climate.

  31. Weintraub is dead right. The self-appointed “Davisites,” who don’t regard Mace Ranch or anything south of I-80 as “real” Davis, talk a great game about sustainability, but they’ve just never seen a development they could approve.

    Not the University Commons/Borders, now a magnet that draws people downtown.
    Not the University’s West Village.
    Not Covell Village, despite the imprint of Mike Corbett, developer or the ur-Davis Village Homes.
    Not any kind of redevelopment at Third and B.
    Not so much as lowering a freaking window on a nondescript downtown building!

  32. Anonoymous, your post paints the choices in manichean terms. The Target decision wasn’t a simple either-or, good-evil choice. I don’t argue with your criticism of the physical layout of Ace Hardware, but that is an accident of history rather than a conscious decision by its owners. The arrival of Target and stores like it on the periphery of Davis will certainly damage the viability of the Davis downtown economic zone. Continuing to pay somewhat higher prices for the items those downtown businesses sell is an economic investment on the part of Davis’ residents in the viability of its economic core. I for one believe patronizing the businesses of the town one lives in is part of the civic responsibility of citizenship.

    Now with that said, the reality is that if 5,000 homes were added to Davis over the next 12 months, the people who would be at the head of the line to put offers in on those homes would be people who value the things that currently make Davis what it is … a college town, with great schools and a near perfect climate.

  33. “If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    It will be even cheaper at Hibbert Lumber, because they buy them directly from the manufacturer. Shop around next time, instead of assuming that Big Box retailers always have the best price.

    Weintraub’s critique was facile. When we went looking for a house and land 22 years ago, the price of homes and property anywhere in the Davis school district was about 20% higher than the surrounding communities of Dixon and Woodland. The reasons Matt cites were true then, and are true now. Based on current median home prices, there is about a 20% disparity between Davis and Woodland, and about a 10% disparity of Davis over Dixon. Dixon is very ethnically diverse and has a median home price of about $460,000.

    Weintraub’s point just illustrates the problem throughout California, having more to do with demographics and the housing bubble than any growth policy constraints. Moreover, it’s a pretty absurd notion. I grew up in La Jolla, where my parents built a house in 1950. At the current median home price there of $1.8 million, I don’t think I’d be buying a home there in my lifetime! Nor do I feel any entitlement for one.

  34. “If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    It will be even cheaper at Hibbert Lumber, because they buy them directly from the manufacturer. Shop around next time, instead of assuming that Big Box retailers always have the best price.

    Weintraub’s critique was facile. When we went looking for a house and land 22 years ago, the price of homes and property anywhere in the Davis school district was about 20% higher than the surrounding communities of Dixon and Woodland. The reasons Matt cites were true then, and are true now. Based on current median home prices, there is about a 20% disparity between Davis and Woodland, and about a 10% disparity of Davis over Dixon. Dixon is very ethnically diverse and has a median home price of about $460,000.

    Weintraub’s point just illustrates the problem throughout California, having more to do with demographics and the housing bubble than any growth policy constraints. Moreover, it’s a pretty absurd notion. I grew up in La Jolla, where my parents built a house in 1950. At the current median home price there of $1.8 million, I don’t think I’d be buying a home there in my lifetime! Nor do I feel any entitlement for one.

  35. “If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    It will be even cheaper at Hibbert Lumber, because they buy them directly from the manufacturer. Shop around next time, instead of assuming that Big Box retailers always have the best price.

    Weintraub’s critique was facile. When we went looking for a house and land 22 years ago, the price of homes and property anywhere in the Davis school district was about 20% higher than the surrounding communities of Dixon and Woodland. The reasons Matt cites were true then, and are true now. Based on current median home prices, there is about a 20% disparity between Davis and Woodland, and about a 10% disparity of Davis over Dixon. Dixon is very ethnically diverse and has a median home price of about $460,000.

    Weintraub’s point just illustrates the problem throughout California, having more to do with demographics and the housing bubble than any growth policy constraints. Moreover, it’s a pretty absurd notion. I grew up in La Jolla, where my parents built a house in 1950. At the current median home price there of $1.8 million, I don’t think I’d be buying a home there in my lifetime! Nor do I feel any entitlement for one.

  36. “If I buy a simple wood post to support a young tree in my yard at the local Ace Hardware store (a store that could never survive in a more competitive environment with its ridiculous layout and multiple locations), it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    It will be even cheaper at Hibbert Lumber, because they buy them directly from the manufacturer. Shop around next time, instead of assuming that Big Box retailers always have the best price.

    Weintraub’s critique was facile. When we went looking for a house and land 22 years ago, the price of homes and property anywhere in the Davis school district was about 20% higher than the surrounding communities of Dixon and Woodland. The reasons Matt cites were true then, and are true now. Based on current median home prices, there is about a 20% disparity between Davis and Woodland, and about a 10% disparity of Davis over Dixon. Dixon is very ethnically diverse and has a median home price of about $460,000.

    Weintraub’s point just illustrates the problem throughout California, having more to do with demographics and the housing bubble than any growth policy constraints. Moreover, it’s a pretty absurd notion. I grew up in La Jolla, where my parents built a house in 1950. At the current median home price there of $1.8 million, I don’t think I’d be buying a home there in my lifetime! Nor do I feel any entitlement for one.

  37. “…it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    …more ranting hyperbole. It’s more like 10-15% and well worth it to support our local economy and recyle our dollars. With the cost of gas now, even that % increase has been neutralized.

  38. “…it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    …more ranting hyperbole. It’s more like 10-15% and well worth it to support our local economy and recyle our dollars. With the cost of gas now, even that % increase has been neutralized.

  39. “…it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    …more ranting hyperbole. It’s more like 10-15% and well worth it to support our local economy and recyle our dollars. With the cost of gas now, even that % increase has been neutralized.

  40. “…it will cost me over 30% more than if I drive to Woodland to the Home Depot.”

    …more ranting hyperbole. It’s more like 10-15% and well worth it to support our local economy and recyle our dollars. With the cost of gas now, even that % increase has been neutralized.

  41. The real issue is how we grow not whether. The sub-issue then becomes what type of housing do we want.

    If everyone agrees Davis needs more affordable housing, then we need to find locations for it, recognizing that larger parcel sizes, higher density, and a larger scale of development (i.e. larger number of units) are necessary. Infill isn’t going to get us there alone for a variety of reasons.

    If that means the same number of units as the proposed CV development on half the land with twice the density, then perhaps that’s a compromise the community, even the Vanguard community, can make. And it can be phased over time.

    While following this blog I have heard a lot of “talk” about affordable housing, but very few ideas of how or where to accomplish it. There’s a major disconnect. If one supports the concept of more affordable housing in Davis, it’s imperative that person identifies a location and housing type and accept the consequences of the subsequent objections by others in the Vanguard community. The burden does not rest upon others to give the Vanguard community a project they can support when the Vanguardians haven’t defined what or where they will support a project.

  42. The real issue is how we grow not whether. The sub-issue then becomes what type of housing do we want.

    If everyone agrees Davis needs more affordable housing, then we need to find locations for it, recognizing that larger parcel sizes, higher density, and a larger scale of development (i.e. larger number of units) are necessary. Infill isn’t going to get us there alone for a variety of reasons.

    If that means the same number of units as the proposed CV development on half the land with twice the density, then perhaps that’s a compromise the community, even the Vanguard community, can make. And it can be phased over time.

    While following this blog I have heard a lot of “talk” about affordable housing, but very few ideas of how or where to accomplish it. There’s a major disconnect. If one supports the concept of more affordable housing in Davis, it’s imperative that person identifies a location and housing type and accept the consequences of the subsequent objections by others in the Vanguard community. The burden does not rest upon others to give the Vanguard community a project they can support when the Vanguardians haven’t defined what or where they will support a project.

  43. The real issue is how we grow not whether. The sub-issue then becomes what type of housing do we want.

    If everyone agrees Davis needs more affordable housing, then we need to find locations for it, recognizing that larger parcel sizes, higher density, and a larger scale of development (i.e. larger number of units) are necessary. Infill isn’t going to get us there alone for a variety of reasons.

    If that means the same number of units as the proposed CV development on half the land with twice the density, then perhaps that’s a compromise the community, even the Vanguard community, can make. And it can be phased over time.

    While following this blog I have heard a lot of “talk” about affordable housing, but very few ideas of how or where to accomplish it. There’s a major disconnect. If one supports the concept of more affordable housing in Davis, it’s imperative that person identifies a location and housing type and accept the consequences of the subsequent objections by others in the Vanguard community. The burden does not rest upon others to give the Vanguard community a project they can support when the Vanguardians haven’t defined what or where they will support a project.

  44. The real issue is how we grow not whether. The sub-issue then becomes what type of housing do we want.

    If everyone agrees Davis needs more affordable housing, then we need to find locations for it, recognizing that larger parcel sizes, higher density, and a larger scale of development (i.e. larger number of units) are necessary. Infill isn’t going to get us there alone for a variety of reasons.

    If that means the same number of units as the proposed CV development on half the land with twice the density, then perhaps that’s a compromise the community, even the Vanguard community, can make. And it can be phased over time.

    While following this blog I have heard a lot of “talk” about affordable housing, but very few ideas of how or where to accomplish it. There’s a major disconnect. If one supports the concept of more affordable housing in Davis, it’s imperative that person identifies a location and housing type and accept the consequences of the subsequent objections by others in the Vanguard community. The burden does not rest upon others to give the Vanguard community a project they can support when the Vanguardians haven’t defined what or where they will support a project.

  45. When I bought my home in the late 1990’s, a 4 bedroom house in Davis could be bought for around $200,000. Wildhorse was selling huge homes for around $300,000. But Woodland, West Sac and Dixon were all less expensive and many people (including our city workers) were complaining that the housing prices were too high in Davis. Mace Ranch was still building like crazy and Wildhorse was churning away. But people still went for lower priced homes in other communities. Speculators and Investors recognized a great market and snapped up homes left and right, driving up the prices quickly – just ask any realtor who was around at that time.

    I’m sure that they just kick themselves now for not buying when the market was lower. Or did what many, many people have done: buy small and old, fix it up, sell it and buy larger and newer.

    Helen Thomson’s daughter should have negotiated for the repair of the foundation on the home that she wanted. I doesn’t say if she even put in an offer on the home or negotiated for a lower price. If she was looking for diversity, then the newer areas of West Sac are not where she would have found it. Southport is new and bright, with its own schools, parks, shopping centers. I’m sure upon closer inspection, it is very white.

  46. When I bought my home in the late 1990’s, a 4 bedroom house in Davis could be bought for around $200,000. Wildhorse was selling huge homes for around $300,000. But Woodland, West Sac and Dixon were all less expensive and many people (including our city workers) were complaining that the housing prices were too high in Davis. Mace Ranch was still building like crazy and Wildhorse was churning away. But people still went for lower priced homes in other communities. Speculators and Investors recognized a great market and snapped up homes left and right, driving up the prices quickly – just ask any realtor who was around at that time.

    I’m sure that they just kick themselves now for not buying when the market was lower. Or did what many, many people have done: buy small and old, fix it up, sell it and buy larger and newer.

    Helen Thomson’s daughter should have negotiated for the repair of the foundation on the home that she wanted. I doesn’t say if she even put in an offer on the home or negotiated for a lower price. If she was looking for diversity, then the newer areas of West Sac are not where she would have found it. Southport is new and bright, with its own schools, parks, shopping centers. I’m sure upon closer inspection, it is very white.

  47. When I bought my home in the late 1990’s, a 4 bedroom house in Davis could be bought for around $200,000. Wildhorse was selling huge homes for around $300,000. But Woodland, West Sac and Dixon were all less expensive and many people (including our city workers) were complaining that the housing prices were too high in Davis. Mace Ranch was still building like crazy and Wildhorse was churning away. But people still went for lower priced homes in other communities. Speculators and Investors recognized a great market and snapped up homes left and right, driving up the prices quickly – just ask any realtor who was around at that time.

    I’m sure that they just kick themselves now for not buying when the market was lower. Or did what many, many people have done: buy small and old, fix it up, sell it and buy larger and newer.

    Helen Thomson’s daughter should have negotiated for the repair of the foundation on the home that she wanted. I doesn’t say if she even put in an offer on the home or negotiated for a lower price. If she was looking for diversity, then the newer areas of West Sac are not where she would have found it. Southport is new and bright, with its own schools, parks, shopping centers. I’m sure upon closer inspection, it is very white.

  48. When I bought my home in the late 1990’s, a 4 bedroom house in Davis could be bought for around $200,000. Wildhorse was selling huge homes for around $300,000. But Woodland, West Sac and Dixon were all less expensive and many people (including our city workers) were complaining that the housing prices were too high in Davis. Mace Ranch was still building like crazy and Wildhorse was churning away. But people still went for lower priced homes in other communities. Speculators and Investors recognized a great market and snapped up homes left and right, driving up the prices quickly – just ask any realtor who was around at that time.

    I’m sure that they just kick themselves now for not buying when the market was lower. Or did what many, many people have done: buy small and old, fix it up, sell it and buy larger and newer.

    Helen Thomson’s daughter should have negotiated for the repair of the foundation on the home that she wanted. I doesn’t say if she even put in an offer on the home or negotiated for a lower price. If she was looking for diversity, then the newer areas of West Sac are not where she would have found it. Southport is new and bright, with its own schools, parks, shopping centers. I’m sure upon closer inspection, it is very white.

  49. Davis is, and will in all liklihood continue to be, a college town with a professional, more upscale population. There are other communities within a stone’s throw that have a different character and economic/social mix. If looked at in regional terms, with Davis being one component of a larger regional residential population, the policy argument on “moral” grounds appears much less convincing.

  50. Davis is, and will in all liklihood continue to be, a college town with a professional, more upscale population. There are other communities within a stone’s throw that have a different character and economic/social mix. If looked at in regional terms, with Davis being one component of a larger regional residential population, the policy argument on “moral” grounds appears much less convincing.

  51. Davis is, and will in all liklihood continue to be, a college town with a professional, more upscale population. There are other communities within a stone’s throw that have a different character and economic/social mix. If looked at in regional terms, with Davis being one component of a larger regional residential population, the policy argument on “moral” grounds appears much less convincing.

  52. Davis is, and will in all liklihood continue to be, a college town with a professional, more upscale population. There are other communities within a stone’s throw that have a different character and economic/social mix. If looked at in regional terms, with Davis being one component of a larger regional residential population, the policy argument on “moral” grounds appears much less convincing.

  53. Weintraub’s critique was facile.

    But when he has ever been any different? Weintraub is noteworthy for the transparency by which he relays the interests of corporations and developer interests to the readers of the Bee.

    Rarely does one encounter the slightest addition of any independent thought.

    This column was a classic. First, Weintraub suddenly discovers that housing is expensive in Davis. And how does he do it? By talking to Helen Thomson, of course, and discovering that her daughter can’t buy a home in Davis.

    Now, it was never a problem for him when, just to provide a few examples, postal workers, police officers, service workers of numerous kinds, and, increasingly, even UCD students, couldn’t afford to live in the city. After all, Weintraub doesn’t talk to them, and evidences no interest in them in his column.

    No, it only became a problem when a longtime elite Davis politician discovered that the elite no longer had an entitlement for their families and their offspring to live in Davis, and, naturally, Weintraub was quite sympathetic to this.

    So, while Shor’s analysis is precise and to the point, I think he misses the nature of the problem, at least as far as Weintraub is concerned. For
    Weintraub, unlike Shor, the problem has never been about the affordability of housing for middle and lower middle income people.

    But, there is more to the peculiarities of Weintraub’s thought than this class bias. How does he propose to solve the problem? By the construction of sprawl of the periphery of Davis, the construction of more high end homes for upper middle class people! So, where is Helen’s daughter supposed to live? One suspects that, if it is possible at all, that it would be in one of the few affordable units, directed towards her outside the normal process of selection by the developer.

    And, then, there is the bizarre notion that living in a new development, as much as 5-6 miles from the downtown, would, by the standards of Thomson and her daughter, be considered “living in Davis”.

    Jurisdictionally speaking, if annexed, it would, but by all the other day to day measurements of life, the relationship would be tangential in many instances.

    As always, logic and Weintraub cross each other’s path infrequently, and this column is an illustrative instance of the phenomenon. But then, maybe I’m spending too much time instead of stating the obvious: Weintraub was just doing a favor for his good friend Angelo, still smarting over how Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.

    So, they got even, at least with Thomson, by exploiting the publcized inability of Thomson’s daughter to find a house in Davis for the benefit of Angelo.

    –Richard Estes

    –Richard Estes

  54. Weintraub’s critique was facile.

    But when he has ever been any different? Weintraub is noteworthy for the transparency by which he relays the interests of corporations and developer interests to the readers of the Bee.

    Rarely does one encounter the slightest addition of any independent thought.

    This column was a classic. First, Weintraub suddenly discovers that housing is expensive in Davis. And how does he do it? By talking to Helen Thomson, of course, and discovering that her daughter can’t buy a home in Davis.

    Now, it was never a problem for him when, just to provide a few examples, postal workers, police officers, service workers of numerous kinds, and, increasingly, even UCD students, couldn’t afford to live in the city. After all, Weintraub doesn’t talk to them, and evidences no interest in them in his column.

    No, it only became a problem when a longtime elite Davis politician discovered that the elite no longer had an entitlement for their families and their offspring to live in Davis, and, naturally, Weintraub was quite sympathetic to this.

    So, while Shor’s analysis is precise and to the point, I think he misses the nature of the problem, at least as far as Weintraub is concerned. For
    Weintraub, unlike Shor, the problem has never been about the affordability of housing for middle and lower middle income people.

    But, there is more to the peculiarities of Weintraub’s thought than this class bias. How does he propose to solve the problem? By the construction of sprawl of the periphery of Davis, the construction of more high end homes for upper middle class people! So, where is Helen’s daughter supposed to live? One suspects that, if it is possible at all, that it would be in one of the few affordable units, directed towards her outside the normal process of selection by the developer.

    And, then, there is the bizarre notion that living in a new development, as much as 5-6 miles from the downtown, would, by the standards of Thomson and her daughter, be considered “living in Davis”.

    Jurisdictionally speaking, if annexed, it would, but by all the other day to day measurements of life, the relationship would be tangential in many instances.

    As always, logic and Weintraub cross each other’s path infrequently, and this column is an illustrative instance of the phenomenon. But then, maybe I’m spending too much time instead of stating the obvious: Weintraub was just doing a favor for his good friend Angelo, still smarting over how Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.

    So, they got even, at least with Thomson, by exploiting the publcized inability of Thomson’s daughter to find a house in Davis for the benefit of Angelo.

    –Richard Estes

    –Richard Estes

  55. Weintraub’s critique was facile.

    But when he has ever been any different? Weintraub is noteworthy for the transparency by which he relays the interests of corporations and developer interests to the readers of the Bee.

    Rarely does one encounter the slightest addition of any independent thought.

    This column was a classic. First, Weintraub suddenly discovers that housing is expensive in Davis. And how does he do it? By talking to Helen Thomson, of course, and discovering that her daughter can’t buy a home in Davis.

    Now, it was never a problem for him when, just to provide a few examples, postal workers, police officers, service workers of numerous kinds, and, increasingly, even UCD students, couldn’t afford to live in the city. After all, Weintraub doesn’t talk to them, and evidences no interest in them in his column.

    No, it only became a problem when a longtime elite Davis politician discovered that the elite no longer had an entitlement for their families and their offspring to live in Davis, and, naturally, Weintraub was quite sympathetic to this.

    So, while Shor’s analysis is precise and to the point, I think he misses the nature of the problem, at least as far as Weintraub is concerned. For
    Weintraub, unlike Shor, the problem has never been about the affordability of housing for middle and lower middle income people.

    But, there is more to the peculiarities of Weintraub’s thought than this class bias. How does he propose to solve the problem? By the construction of sprawl of the periphery of Davis, the construction of more high end homes for upper middle class people! So, where is Helen’s daughter supposed to live? One suspects that, if it is possible at all, that it would be in one of the few affordable units, directed towards her outside the normal process of selection by the developer.

    And, then, there is the bizarre notion that living in a new development, as much as 5-6 miles from the downtown, would, by the standards of Thomson and her daughter, be considered “living in Davis”.

    Jurisdictionally speaking, if annexed, it would, but by all the other day to day measurements of life, the relationship would be tangential in many instances.

    As always, logic and Weintraub cross each other’s path infrequently, and this column is an illustrative instance of the phenomenon. But then, maybe I’m spending too much time instead of stating the obvious: Weintraub was just doing a favor for his good friend Angelo, still smarting over how Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.

    So, they got even, at least with Thomson, by exploiting the publcized inability of Thomson’s daughter to find a house in Davis for the benefit of Angelo.

    –Richard Estes

    –Richard Estes

  56. Weintraub’s critique was facile.

    But when he has ever been any different? Weintraub is noteworthy for the transparency by which he relays the interests of corporations and developer interests to the readers of the Bee.

    Rarely does one encounter the slightest addition of any independent thought.

    This column was a classic. First, Weintraub suddenly discovers that housing is expensive in Davis. And how does he do it? By talking to Helen Thomson, of course, and discovering that her daughter can’t buy a home in Davis.

    Now, it was never a problem for him when, just to provide a few examples, postal workers, police officers, service workers of numerous kinds, and, increasingly, even UCD students, couldn’t afford to live in the city. After all, Weintraub doesn’t talk to them, and evidences no interest in them in his column.

    No, it only became a problem when a longtime elite Davis politician discovered that the elite no longer had an entitlement for their families and their offspring to live in Davis, and, naturally, Weintraub was quite sympathetic to this.

    So, while Shor’s analysis is precise and to the point, I think he misses the nature of the problem, at least as far as Weintraub is concerned. For
    Weintraub, unlike Shor, the problem has never been about the affordability of housing for middle and lower middle income people.

    But, there is more to the peculiarities of Weintraub’s thought than this class bias. How does he propose to solve the problem? By the construction of sprawl of the periphery of Davis, the construction of more high end homes for upper middle class people! So, where is Helen’s daughter supposed to live? One suspects that, if it is possible at all, that it would be in one of the few affordable units, directed towards her outside the normal process of selection by the developer.

    And, then, there is the bizarre notion that living in a new development, as much as 5-6 miles from the downtown, would, by the standards of Thomson and her daughter, be considered “living in Davis”.

    Jurisdictionally speaking, if annexed, it would, but by all the other day to day measurements of life, the relationship would be tangential in many instances.

    As always, logic and Weintraub cross each other’s path infrequently, and this column is an illustrative instance of the phenomenon. But then, maybe I’m spending too much time instead of stating the obvious: Weintraub was just doing a favor for his good friend Angelo, still smarting over how Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.

    So, they got even, at least with Thomson, by exploiting the publcized inability of Thomson’s daughter to find a house in Davis for the benefit of Angelo.

    –Richard Estes

    –Richard Estes

  57. “Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.”

    Right on! Hard to believe that Angelo really believed that his proposal would fly. Getting it included for “special study” could have increased the value of the property considerably, to be used,perhaps, as collateral for other ventures.

  58. “Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.”

    Right on! Hard to believe that Angelo really believed that his proposal would fly. Getting it included for “special study” could have increased the value of the property considerably, to be used,perhaps, as collateral for other ventures.

  59. “Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.”

    Right on! Hard to believe that Angelo really believed that his proposal would fly. Getting it included for “special study” could have increased the value of the property considerably, to be used,perhaps, as collateral for other ventures.

  60. “Thomson and Yamada tried to manipulate him into pushing a proposed development that would never see the light of day, that would only be used as leverage to resuscitate Covell Center.”

    Right on! Hard to believe that Angelo really believed that his proposal would fly. Getting it included for “special study” could have increased the value of the property considerably, to be used,perhaps, as collateral for other ventures.

  61. “Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA).”

    While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent. But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.

  62. “Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA).”

    While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent. But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.

  63. “Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA).”

    While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent. But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.

  64. “Davis housing prices will continue to command a premium over those in areas they are compared to as long as Davis is considered more desirable (e.g., because of our excellent public schools or because we don’t look like Anywhere USA).”

    While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent. But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.

  65. The myth is more important than the reality here. The reputation of Davis
    secondary education exceeds the reality but it still is a factor in keeping Davis’ housing prices high. A family with several children thinking of living in the Pocket area of Sacramento and sending their children to private school consider this additional cost when looking at Davis housing prices.

  66. The myth is more important than the reality here. The reputation of Davis
    secondary education exceeds the reality but it still is a factor in keeping Davis’ housing prices high. A family with several children thinking of living in the Pocket area of Sacramento and sending their children to private school consider this additional cost when looking at Davis housing prices.

  67. The myth is more important than the reality here. The reputation of Davis
    secondary education exceeds the reality but it still is a factor in keeping Davis’ housing prices high. A family with several children thinking of living in the Pocket area of Sacramento and sending their children to private school consider this additional cost when looking at Davis housing prices.

  68. The myth is more important than the reality here. The reputation of Davis
    secondary education exceeds the reality but it still is a factor in keeping Davis’ housing prices high. A family with several children thinking of living in the Pocket area of Sacramento and sending their children to private school consider this additional cost when looking at Davis housing prices.

  69. Rick Rifkin said: “While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    Rich,

    My point really wasn’t about the quality of Davis schools in an absolute sense, but rather about the relative desirability of Davis, when compared to other communities. Comparing Davis schools with surrounding communities, they come out looking pretty good. Could the schools be better? Sure. There’s always room for improvement.

    Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.

  70. Rick Rifkin said: “While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    Rich,

    My point really wasn’t about the quality of Davis schools in an absolute sense, but rather about the relative desirability of Davis, when compared to other communities. Comparing Davis schools with surrounding communities, they come out looking pretty good. Could the schools be better? Sure. There’s always room for improvement.

    Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.

  71. Rick Rifkin said: “While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    Rich,

    My point really wasn’t about the quality of Davis schools in an absolute sense, but rather about the relative desirability of Davis, when compared to other communities. Comparing Davis schools with surrounding communities, they come out looking pretty good. Could the schools be better? Sure. There’s always room for improvement.

    Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.

  72. Rick Rifkin said: “While I agree with the gist of this statement, I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    Rich,

    My point really wasn’t about the quality of Davis schools in an absolute sense, but rather about the relative desirability of Davis, when compared to other communities. Comparing Davis schools with surrounding communities, they come out looking pretty good. Could the schools be better? Sure. There’s always room for improvement.

    Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.

  73. The Bee is wrong about Davis. Or at the very least, the Bee has misplaced importance on the lack of runaway sprawl as the source of Davis’ ills.

  74. The Bee is wrong about Davis. Or at the very least, the Bee has misplaced importance on the lack of runaway sprawl as the source of Davis’ ills.

  75. The Bee is wrong about Davis. Or at the very least, the Bee has misplaced importance on the lack of runaway sprawl as the source of Davis’ ills.

  76. The Bee is wrong about Davis. Or at the very least, the Bee has misplaced importance on the lack of runaway sprawl as the source of Davis’ ills.

  77. “Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.”

    Yes, I agree with you.

    I think the long-term premium for Davis home prices rests on five factors:

    1. The university;
    2. The relative quality of our public schools;
    3. The relatively low crime rate and relatively high rate of social harmony;
    4. The physical infrastructure of Davis, including the parks, trees, bike paths, green belts and so on; and

    5. The amenities of Davis, including things like our quaint downtown, numerous restaurants and coffeehouses, programs for kids and senior programs.

    Although this has declined a lot since Davis’s population passed 25,000, there is still a relatively good sense of community in Davis, brought on in part by the 1-5 factors above, and that likely results in a housing price premium. From having lived in some smaller towns (and in Davis back when it was a small town), there tends to be a much stronger sense of community in smaller towns; and I think a lot of people value that in choosing a place to live.

    When some comment that it is a dearth of housing supply which has caused the premium in prices in Davis housing, they are not altogether wrong. Every time big housing developments have been built here, the prices in the rest of town have fallen in either real or nominal dollars. But that is a short term effect. Long-term, I think it is the 5 factors above (and probably a few others I forgot to include).

  78. “Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.”

    Yes, I agree with you.

    I think the long-term premium for Davis home prices rests on five factors:

    1. The university;
    2. The relative quality of our public schools;
    3. The relatively low crime rate and relatively high rate of social harmony;
    4. The physical infrastructure of Davis, including the parks, trees, bike paths, green belts and so on; and

    5. The amenities of Davis, including things like our quaint downtown, numerous restaurants and coffeehouses, programs for kids and senior programs.

    Although this has declined a lot since Davis’s population passed 25,000, there is still a relatively good sense of community in Davis, brought on in part by the 1-5 factors above, and that likely results in a housing price premium. From having lived in some smaller towns (and in Davis back when it was a small town), there tends to be a much stronger sense of community in smaller towns; and I think a lot of people value that in choosing a place to live.

    When some comment that it is a dearth of housing supply which has caused the premium in prices in Davis housing, they are not altogether wrong. Every time big housing developments have been built here, the prices in the rest of town have fallen in either real or nominal dollars. But that is a short term effect. Long-term, I think it is the 5 factors above (and probably a few others I forgot to include).

  79. “Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.”

    Yes, I agree with you.

    I think the long-term premium for Davis home prices rests on five factors:

    1. The university;
    2. The relative quality of our public schools;
    3. The relatively low crime rate and relatively high rate of social harmony;
    4. The physical infrastructure of Davis, including the parks, trees, bike paths, green belts and so on; and

    5. The amenities of Davis, including things like our quaint downtown, numerous restaurants and coffeehouses, programs for kids and senior programs.

    Although this has declined a lot since Davis’s population passed 25,000, there is still a relatively good sense of community in Davis, brought on in part by the 1-5 factors above, and that likely results in a housing price premium. From having lived in some smaller towns (and in Davis back when it was a small town), there tends to be a much stronger sense of community in smaller towns; and I think a lot of people value that in choosing a place to live.

    When some comment that it is a dearth of housing supply which has caused the premium in prices in Davis housing, they are not altogether wrong. Every time big housing developments have been built here, the prices in the rest of town have fallen in either real or nominal dollars. But that is a short term effect. Long-term, I think it is the 5 factors above (and probably a few others I forgot to include).

  80. “Based on the rest of your comment, I think we agree that it would be far better to decrease the Davis housing premium by improving other communities than by making Davis less desirable.”

    Yes, I agree with you.

    I think the long-term premium for Davis home prices rests on five factors:

    1. The university;
    2. The relative quality of our public schools;
    3. The relatively low crime rate and relatively high rate of social harmony;
    4. The physical infrastructure of Davis, including the parks, trees, bike paths, green belts and so on; and

    5. The amenities of Davis, including things like our quaint downtown, numerous restaurants and coffeehouses, programs for kids and senior programs.

    Although this has declined a lot since Davis’s population passed 25,000, there is still a relatively good sense of community in Davis, brought on in part by the 1-5 factors above, and that likely results in a housing price premium. From having lived in some smaller towns (and in Davis back when it was a small town), there tends to be a much stronger sense of community in smaller towns; and I think a lot of people value that in choosing a place to live.

    When some comment that it is a dearth of housing supply which has caused the premium in prices in Davis housing, they are not altogether wrong. Every time big housing developments have been built here, the prices in the rest of town have fallen in either real or nominal dollars. But that is a short term effect. Long-term, I think it is the 5 factors above (and probably a few others I forgot to include).

  81. Weintraub’s column is silly. Where does he live? Carmichael? Fair Oaks? Land Park? I have a feeling his home isn’t in south Sacramento or Del Paso Heights.

    The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

  82. Weintraub’s column is silly. Where does he live? Carmichael? Fair Oaks? Land Park? I have a feeling his home isn’t in south Sacramento or Del Paso Heights.

    The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

  83. Weintraub’s column is silly. Where does he live? Carmichael? Fair Oaks? Land Park? I have a feeling his home isn’t in south Sacramento or Del Paso Heights.

    The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

  84. Weintraub’s column is silly. Where does he live? Carmichael? Fair Oaks? Land Park? I have a feeling his home isn’t in south Sacramento or Del Paso Heights.

    The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

  85. What’s “silly”, no stupid, no ignorant, is the obsession of people on this site with trashing the people with whom you disagree rather than dealing with the intellectual integrity of their arguments. Where Dan Weintraub lives is completely irrelevant. If he lived in a commune, was a vegan, and grew his own food, would you accept his arguments? I doubt it. The people on this site have a habit of doing this with EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH. That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns.

  86. What’s “silly”, no stupid, no ignorant, is the obsession of people on this site with trashing the people with whom you disagree rather than dealing with the intellectual integrity of their arguments. Where Dan Weintraub lives is completely irrelevant. If he lived in a commune, was a vegan, and grew his own food, would you accept his arguments? I doubt it. The people on this site have a habit of doing this with EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH. That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns.

  87. What’s “silly”, no stupid, no ignorant, is the obsession of people on this site with trashing the people with whom you disagree rather than dealing with the intellectual integrity of their arguments. Where Dan Weintraub lives is completely irrelevant. If he lived in a commune, was a vegan, and grew his own food, would you accept his arguments? I doubt it. The people on this site have a habit of doing this with EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH. That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns.

  88. What’s “silly”, no stupid, no ignorant, is the obsession of people on this site with trashing the people with whom you disagree rather than dealing with the intellectual integrity of their arguments. Where Dan Weintraub lives is completely irrelevant. If he lived in a commune, was a vegan, and grew his own food, would you accept his arguments? I doubt it. The people on this site have a habit of doing this with EVERYONE THEY DISAGREE WITH. That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns.

  89. Anonymous 6:10 said – “The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

    I read the article a couple times now and didn’t get the impression that Weintraub was calling the people of Davis racist. He mentions the percentage of Whites, Asian Americans, African Americans, and Latinos. Where he got the stats from I don’t know and I have no reason to dispute the numbers. Your comments about South Sacramento and Del Paso Heights made me more uncomfortable than Weintraubs comments. We are all too quick to call someone a racist, think we are being labeled racist, and to read something unintended into one’s comments. I think he was taking a pretty good jab at Davis more for being elitist, isolationist, snobbish, and maybe even phonies, but not racist.

    I do agree that the article was silly. What was the point of it? The whole thing just appeared out of left field for no apparent reason. It shed no new light on anything about Davis that most people didn’t know already. Some comments above suggest a conspiracy of sorts and retribution for the AKT debacle. Seems to me the Bee had some extra space in the Forum that needed filling, a blank column would have been just as informative.

  90. Anonymous 6:10 said – “The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

    I read the article a couple times now and didn’t get the impression that Weintraub was calling the people of Davis racist. He mentions the percentage of Whites, Asian Americans, African Americans, and Latinos. Where he got the stats from I don’t know and I have no reason to dispute the numbers. Your comments about South Sacramento and Del Paso Heights made me more uncomfortable than Weintraubs comments. We are all too quick to call someone a racist, think we are being labeled racist, and to read something unintended into one’s comments. I think he was taking a pretty good jab at Davis more for being elitist, isolationist, snobbish, and maybe even phonies, but not racist.

    I do agree that the article was silly. What was the point of it? The whole thing just appeared out of left field for no apparent reason. It shed no new light on anything about Davis that most people didn’t know already. Some comments above suggest a conspiracy of sorts and retribution for the AKT debacle. Seems to me the Bee had some extra space in the Forum that needed filling, a blank column would have been just as informative.

  91. Anonymous 6:10 said – “The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

    I read the article a couple times now and didn’t get the impression that Weintraub was calling the people of Davis racist. He mentions the percentage of Whites, Asian Americans, African Americans, and Latinos. Where he got the stats from I don’t know and I have no reason to dispute the numbers. Your comments about South Sacramento and Del Paso Heights made me more uncomfortable than Weintraubs comments. We are all too quick to call someone a racist, think we are being labeled racist, and to read something unintended into one’s comments. I think he was taking a pretty good jab at Davis more for being elitist, isolationist, snobbish, and maybe even phonies, but not racist.

    I do agree that the article was silly. What was the point of it? The whole thing just appeared out of left field for no apparent reason. It shed no new light on anything about Davis that most people didn’t know already. Some comments above suggest a conspiracy of sorts and retribution for the AKT debacle. Seems to me the Bee had some extra space in the Forum that needed filling, a blank column would have been just as informative.

  92. Anonymous 6:10 said – “The desire to keep Davis more or less as it is, without large amounts of sprawl, is about quality of life (less traffic and a neighborhood feel). Wanting that doesn’t make one a racist.

    I read the article a couple times now and didn’t get the impression that Weintraub was calling the people of Davis racist. He mentions the percentage of Whites, Asian Americans, African Americans, and Latinos. Where he got the stats from I don’t know and I have no reason to dispute the numbers. Your comments about South Sacramento and Del Paso Heights made me more uncomfortable than Weintraubs comments. We are all too quick to call someone a racist, think we are being labeled racist, and to read something unintended into one’s comments. I think he was taking a pretty good jab at Davis more for being elitist, isolationist, snobbish, and maybe even phonies, but not racist.

    I do agree that the article was silly. What was the point of it? The whole thing just appeared out of left field for no apparent reason. It shed no new light on anything about Davis that most people didn’t know already. Some comments above suggest a conspiracy of sorts and retribution for the AKT debacle. Seems to me the Bee had some extra space in the Forum that needed filling, a blank column would have been just as informative.

  93. “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.

  94. “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.

  95. “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.

  96. “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.

  97. Weintraub’s colums says, in part:

    “But they [Tskapoulous and Klein] were talking here about 1,500 acres next to a major freeway and existing urban development.”

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.

  98. Weintraub’s colums says, in part:

    “But they [Tskapoulous and Klein] were talking here about 1,500 acres next to a major freeway and existing urban development.”

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.

  99. Weintraub’s colums says, in part:

    “But they [Tskapoulous and Klein] were talking here about 1,500 acres next to a major freeway and existing urban development.”

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.

  100. Weintraub’s colums says, in part:

    “But they [Tskapoulous and Klein] were talking here about 1,500 acres next to a major freeway and existing urban development.”

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.

  101. Doug Paul Davis said…

    “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.
    ———-
    Not to mention that half a dozen of the people on this thread alone used our real names.

    One thing I am curious about: what do most of you mean by ‘affordable housing’? Starter homes? Davis has a lot of rental housing, and I believe the current vacancy rate is considered reasonably healthy (though I’ve seen it range from 5% down to 0.5% over the years). There is some low-income housing, there are a couple of trailer parks, duplexes in east Davis, some quad-plexes (including a whole subdivision of them off of Pole Line).
    What exactly is the missing component of the housing market here that would be defined as affordable?

  102. Doug Paul Davis said…

    “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.
    ———-
    Not to mention that half a dozen of the people on this thread alone used our real names.

    One thing I am curious about: what do most of you mean by ‘affordable housing’? Starter homes? Davis has a lot of rental housing, and I believe the current vacancy rate is considered reasonably healthy (though I’ve seen it range from 5% down to 0.5% over the years). There is some low-income housing, there are a couple of trailer parks, duplexes in east Davis, some quad-plexes (including a whole subdivision of them off of Pole Line).
    What exactly is the missing component of the housing market here that would be defined as affordable?

  103. Doug Paul Davis said…

    “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.
    ———-
    Not to mention that half a dozen of the people on this thread alone used our real names.

    One thing I am curious about: what do most of you mean by ‘affordable housing’? Starter homes? Davis has a lot of rental housing, and I believe the current vacancy rate is considered reasonably healthy (though I’ve seen it range from 5% down to 0.5% over the years). There is some low-income housing, there are a couple of trailer parks, duplexes in east Davis, some quad-plexes (including a whole subdivision of them off of Pole Line).
    What exactly is the missing component of the housing market here that would be defined as affordable?

  104. Doug Paul Davis said…

    “That’s why this site has not grown any credibility beyond the half dozen core people who participate under various pseudonymns. “

    I have to strongly disagree with that. Only a small percentage of the people who read this blog everyday post comments, but this is a pretty successful blog by most measures.
    ———-
    Not to mention that half a dozen of the people on this thread alone used our real names.

    One thing I am curious about: what do most of you mean by ‘affordable housing’? Starter homes? Davis has a lot of rental housing, and I believe the current vacancy rate is considered reasonably healthy (though I’ve seen it range from 5% down to 0.5% over the years). There is some low-income housing, there are a couple of trailer parks, duplexes in east Davis, some quad-plexes (including a whole subdivision of them off of Pole Line).
    What exactly is the missing component of the housing market here that would be defined as affordable?

  105. Anonymous said…

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.
    ———
    Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

  106. Anonymous said…

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.
    ———
    Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

  107. Anonymous said…

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.
    ———
    Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

  108. Anonymous said…

    Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.
    ———
    Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

  109. Matt Rexroad does a good job of making the same point I’ve been trying to make for the last few months–we cannot build our way into affordability and we certainly cannot do it without huge sacrifices in other things that we need…

    Rexroad Blog

  110. Matt Rexroad does a good job of making the same point I’ve been trying to make for the last few months–we cannot build our way into affordability and we certainly cannot do it without huge sacrifices in other things that we need…

    Rexroad Blog

  111. Matt Rexroad does a good job of making the same point I’ve been trying to make for the last few months–we cannot build our way into affordability and we certainly cannot do it without huge sacrifices in other things that we need…

    Rexroad Blog

  112. Matt Rexroad does a good job of making the same point I’ve been trying to make for the last few months–we cannot build our way into affordability and we certainly cannot do it without huge sacrifices in other things that we need…

    Rexroad Blog

  113. “Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.”

    In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes. From there to the causeway is less than two miles. So the construction, if allowed to happen, could be as little as a few hundred feet up to nearly two miles, certainly somewhere in between there, near urban development.

    The Yolo Bypass Wildlife Office, the California Forestry Division, DYSL soccer Fields are all within the “red lines” too.

  114. “Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.”

    In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes. From there to the causeway is less than two miles. So the construction, if allowed to happen, could be as little as a few hundred feet up to nearly two miles, certainly somewhere in between there, near urban development.

    The Yolo Bypass Wildlife Office, the California Forestry Division, DYSL soccer Fields are all within the “red lines” too.

  115. “Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.”

    In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes. From there to the causeway is less than two miles. So the construction, if allowed to happen, could be as little as a few hundred feet up to nearly two miles, certainly somewhere in between there, near urban development.

    The Yolo Bypass Wildlife Office, the California Forestry Division, DYSL soccer Fields are all within the “red lines” too.

  116. “Existing urban development? For the benefit of readers who may not have actually set foot on the 1,500 acres in question, the only development for miles around there is a fruit stand, some silos and birds’ nests.”

    In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes. From there to the causeway is less than two miles. So the construction, if allowed to happen, could be as little as a few hundred feet up to nearly two miles, certainly somewhere in between there, near urban development.

    The Yolo Bypass Wildlife Office, the California Forestry Division, DYSL soccer Fields are all within the “red lines” too.

  117. “Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

    From the midpoint of the land in question is not closer to downtown West Sac than it is to downtown Davis. It’s not even close when you consider it to the closet point in Davis and the closest point in West Sac.

    As usual, the old south Davis (Mace & Chiles area) is not even considerd to apart of Davis. The causeway is at least 4 miles long.

  118. “Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

    From the midpoint of the land in question is not closer to downtown West Sac than it is to downtown Davis. It’s not even close when you consider it to the closet point in Davis and the closest point in West Sac.

    As usual, the old south Davis (Mace & Chiles area) is not even considerd to apart of Davis. The causeway is at least 4 miles long.

  119. “Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

    From the midpoint of the land in question is not closer to downtown West Sac than it is to downtown Davis. It’s not even close when you consider it to the closet point in Davis and the closest point in West Sac.

    As usual, the old south Davis (Mace & Chiles area) is not even considerd to apart of Davis. The causeway is at least 4 miles long.

  120. “Seriously. And it’s closer to West Sacramento than it is to downtown Davis.

    From the midpoint of the land in question is not closer to downtown West Sac than it is to downtown Davis. It’s not even close when you consider it to the closet point in Davis and the closest point in West Sac.

    As usual, the old south Davis (Mace & Chiles area) is not even considerd to apart of Davis. The causeway is at least 4 miles long.

  121. Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me. Our schools post high test scores, our students graduate and go on to good colleges, and Rifkin implies that this happens “in spite” of the teachers who teach these students?

    As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast. We have EXCELLENT teachers throughout our schools who work hard to push and truly educate our students. Yes, our students come from good familes who emphasize education. But at the same time, our hardworking teachers in the classroom take that ‘spark’ and take the students further.

    We have an excellent school system because of ALL the players involved. Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par. Our district’s results are far from that and I believe that the teachers deserve a round of applause. I, for one, am grateful.

    And for the record, I am not a teacher, nor am I married to a teacher or even have friends in the profession.

  122. Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me. Our schools post high test scores, our students graduate and go on to good colleges, and Rifkin implies that this happens “in spite” of the teachers who teach these students?

    As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast. We have EXCELLENT teachers throughout our schools who work hard to push and truly educate our students. Yes, our students come from good familes who emphasize education. But at the same time, our hardworking teachers in the classroom take that ‘spark’ and take the students further.

    We have an excellent school system because of ALL the players involved. Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par. Our district’s results are far from that and I believe that the teachers deserve a round of applause. I, for one, am grateful.

    And for the record, I am not a teacher, nor am I married to a teacher or even have friends in the profession.

  123. Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me. Our schools post high test scores, our students graduate and go on to good colleges, and Rifkin implies that this happens “in spite” of the teachers who teach these students?

    As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast. We have EXCELLENT teachers throughout our schools who work hard to push and truly educate our students. Yes, our students come from good familes who emphasize education. But at the same time, our hardworking teachers in the classroom take that ‘spark’ and take the students further.

    We have an excellent school system because of ALL the players involved. Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par. Our district’s results are far from that and I believe that the teachers deserve a round of applause. I, for one, am grateful.

    And for the record, I am not a teacher, nor am I married to a teacher or even have friends in the profession.

  124. Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me. Our schools post high test scores, our students graduate and go on to good colleges, and Rifkin implies that this happens “in spite” of the teachers who teach these students?

    As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast. We have EXCELLENT teachers throughout our schools who work hard to push and truly educate our students. Yes, our students come from good familes who emphasize education. But at the same time, our hardworking teachers in the classroom take that ‘spark’ and take the students further.

    We have an excellent school system because of ALL the players involved. Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par. Our district’s results are far from that and I believe that the teachers deserve a round of applause. I, for one, am grateful.

    And for the record, I am not a teacher, nor am I married to a teacher or even have friends in the profession.

  125. Don,

    The point of Anonymous 8:07 is well taken. There have been 32 postings on this thread. Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.) That’s a half dozen. Add the moderator, that’s 7. Who knows who the rest of us are, maybe just those same 7 people posting anonymously. The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously. There is little to be found here that can’t be found elsewhere, perhaps on some bathroom wall at Mishka’s or the Cantina (were it still around) who knows where? While the Vanguard does provide entertainment for Davis political junkies, I’ll continue to check in with this and other similar sites as they come and go. As for now, I would say this site is in danger of spiraling down the toilet and losing interest even those who may nothing better to do.

    Too bad it happens at your anniversary. What are you celebrating anyway? The demise of the Yamada for Assembly campaign?

    OK, now attack me folks! Davisite, whoevere he is, must have something caustic to offer right about now.

  126. Don,

    The point of Anonymous 8:07 is well taken. There have been 32 postings on this thread. Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.) That’s a half dozen. Add the moderator, that’s 7. Who knows who the rest of us are, maybe just those same 7 people posting anonymously. The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously. There is little to be found here that can’t be found elsewhere, perhaps on some bathroom wall at Mishka’s or the Cantina (were it still around) who knows where? While the Vanguard does provide entertainment for Davis political junkies, I’ll continue to check in with this and other similar sites as they come and go. As for now, I would say this site is in danger of spiraling down the toilet and losing interest even those who may nothing better to do.

    Too bad it happens at your anniversary. What are you celebrating anyway? The demise of the Yamada for Assembly campaign?

    OK, now attack me folks! Davisite, whoevere he is, must have something caustic to offer right about now.

  127. Don,

    The point of Anonymous 8:07 is well taken. There have been 32 postings on this thread. Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.) That’s a half dozen. Add the moderator, that’s 7. Who knows who the rest of us are, maybe just those same 7 people posting anonymously. The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously. There is little to be found here that can’t be found elsewhere, perhaps on some bathroom wall at Mishka’s or the Cantina (were it still around) who knows where? While the Vanguard does provide entertainment for Davis political junkies, I’ll continue to check in with this and other similar sites as they come and go. As for now, I would say this site is in danger of spiraling down the toilet and losing interest even those who may nothing better to do.

    Too bad it happens at your anniversary. What are you celebrating anyway? The demise of the Yamada for Assembly campaign?

    OK, now attack me folks! Davisite, whoevere he is, must have something caustic to offer right about now.

  128. Don,

    The point of Anonymous 8:07 is well taken. There have been 32 postings on this thread. Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.) That’s a half dozen. Add the moderator, that’s 7. Who knows who the rest of us are, maybe just those same 7 people posting anonymously. The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously. There is little to be found here that can’t be found elsewhere, perhaps on some bathroom wall at Mishka’s or the Cantina (were it still around) who knows where? While the Vanguard does provide entertainment for Davis political junkies, I’ll continue to check in with this and other similar sites as they come and go. As for now, I would say this site is in danger of spiraling down the toilet and losing interest even those who may nothing better to do.

    Too bad it happens at your anniversary. What are you celebrating anyway? The demise of the Yamada for Assembly campaign?

    OK, now attack me folks! Davisite, whoevere he is, must have something caustic to offer right about now.

  129. No matter how you slice it, even if you built the business park, on top of the fruit stand it would be closer to Davis than West Sac and closer to downtown Davis than downtown West Sac, which the 80/50 split isn’t.

  130. No matter how you slice it, even if you built the business park, on top of the fruit stand it would be closer to Davis than West Sac and closer to downtown Davis than downtown West Sac, which the 80/50 split isn’t.

  131. No matter how you slice it, even if you built the business park, on top of the fruit stand it would be closer to Davis than West Sac and closer to downtown Davis than downtown West Sac, which the 80/50 split isn’t.

  132. No matter how you slice it, even if you built the business park, on top of the fruit stand it would be closer to Davis than West Sac and closer to downtown Davis than downtown West Sac, which the 80/50 split isn’t.

  133. “The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously.”

    Actually the point doesn’t remain at all, it has not been established. Many would argue is already taken seriously–deadly seriously.

    I’ve never commented before, I usually just read the articles frankly, everyone I know reads the articles, almost no one reads the comments. It is well done, informative, and thought provoking. You are making a serious mistake if you believe that this blog is not well read. I’m not even involved in local politics, but I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is.

  134. “The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously.”

    Actually the point doesn’t remain at all, it has not been established. Many would argue is already taken seriously–deadly seriously.

    I’ve never commented before, I usually just read the articles frankly, everyone I know reads the articles, almost no one reads the comments. It is well done, informative, and thought provoking. You are making a serious mistake if you believe that this blog is not well read. I’m not even involved in local politics, but I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is.

  135. “The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously.”

    Actually the point doesn’t remain at all, it has not been established. Many would argue is already taken seriously–deadly seriously.

    I’ve never commented before, I usually just read the articles frankly, everyone I know reads the articles, almost no one reads the comments. It is well done, informative, and thought provoking. You are making a serious mistake if you believe that this blog is not well read. I’m not even involved in local politics, but I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is.

  136. “The point remains that there is a poisonous tone on this website, personal in nature, that prevents it from ever being taken seriously.”

    Actually the point doesn’t remain at all, it has not been established. Many would argue is already taken seriously–deadly seriously.

    I’ve never commented before, I usually just read the articles frankly, everyone I know reads the articles, almost no one reads the comments. It is well done, informative, and thought provoking. You are making a serious mistake if you believe that this blog is not well read. I’m not even involved in local politics, but I was turned onto it by a friend of mine who is.

  137. Charlie Brown is coming to the Vanguard Party because it is ground zero for hard core lefties who can help his campaign eventhough we are not in his district. Last fall he held two events in Davis that were well attended. His district is now called the Orange County of the North so he can use all the help he can get as Do Little continues to implode and self destructs.As Donald Rumsfeld would say “Will Charlie have a big stack of self addressed envelopes in his pocket in case the need arises? ” : Probably”

  138. Charlie Brown is coming to the Vanguard Party because it is ground zero for hard core lefties who can help his campaign eventhough we are not in his district. Last fall he held two events in Davis that were well attended. His district is now called the Orange County of the North so he can use all the help he can get as Do Little continues to implode and self destructs.As Donald Rumsfeld would say “Will Charlie have a big stack of self addressed envelopes in his pocket in case the need arises? ” : Probably”

  139. Charlie Brown is coming to the Vanguard Party because it is ground zero for hard core lefties who can help his campaign eventhough we are not in his district. Last fall he held two events in Davis that were well attended. His district is now called the Orange County of the North so he can use all the help he can get as Do Little continues to implode and self destructs.As Donald Rumsfeld would say “Will Charlie have a big stack of self addressed envelopes in his pocket in case the need arises? ” : Probably”

  140. Charlie Brown is coming to the Vanguard Party because it is ground zero for hard core lefties who can help his campaign eventhough we are not in his district. Last fall he held two events in Davis that were well attended. His district is now called the Orange County of the North so he can use all the help he can get as Do Little continues to implode and self destructs.As Donald Rumsfeld would say “Will Charlie have a big stack of self addressed envelopes in his pocket in case the need arises? ” : Probably”

  141. Not including the anonymous’ which we cannot vouch for–there 14 different people who most of us know that have posted on this comment thread. I think the charge made by anonymous and seconded by Curious Observer is ludicrous.

    “Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.)”

    I know each of these people, do you?

  142. Not including the anonymous’ which we cannot vouch for–there 14 different people who most of us know that have posted on this comment thread. I think the charge made by anonymous and seconded by Curious Observer is ludicrous.

    “Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.)”

    I know each of these people, do you?

  143. Not including the anonymous’ which we cannot vouch for–there 14 different people who most of us know that have posted on this comment thread. I think the charge made by anonymous and seconded by Curious Observer is ludicrous.

    “Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.)”

    I know each of these people, do you?

  144. Not including the anonymous’ which we cannot vouch for–there 14 different people who most of us know that have posted on this comment thread. I think the charge made by anonymous and seconded by Curious Observer is ludicrous.

    “Only 6 used real names (assuming they are real.)”

    I know each of these people, do you?

  145. “Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me.”

    I wrote: “With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators.”

    I did not intend that to be an “attack on Davis teachers.” If you take it that way, you have issues I don’t understand.

    Did I say that we don’t have some excellent teachers? Absolutely not. We have some. Just as Woodland, Dixon, Winters and West Sac have some excellent teachers.

    But do we reward excellence as excellence? No. Do we tolerate and reward mediocrity? Yes.

    Is the reason our test scores are higher than some neighboring districts’ due to the demands we put upon our teachers or the intrinsic qualities of our teachers? No. Is the main difference the educational background of Davis families? Yes.

    “As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast.”

    As a parent, you know the system from that perspective, which is credible. I know the system from the perspective of having grown up in Davis and attended Davis schools K-12 (as well as observing it as an adult for many years). The entire time I was a student in the Davis schools, our test scores were significantly higher than in all neighboring towns. (In fact, our test scores were relatively better when I was a student than they are today. Does that mean that teachers in Davis back then were much better than Davis teachers are today?) Were the Davis teachers the reason for this marginal difference? No. Some of the teachers were excellent. Some were unforgivably bad.

    I had a chemistry teacher in high school who was, or appeared to be, drunk almost every day. (Everyone knew this.) I had a U.S. history teacher at Davis High who was senile. At the same time, I had truly outstanding teachers in calculus, physics, journalism and U.S. government. Most were somewhere in between. My story is not unique. I’m sure everyone who went through high school anywhere had a mix of the good, bad and average.

    “Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par.”

    I never said or implied that our teachers are sub-par. Your infering this is a mistake on your part.

  146. “Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me.”

    I wrote: “With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators.”

    I did not intend that to be an “attack on Davis teachers.” If you take it that way, you have issues I don’t understand.

    Did I say that we don’t have some excellent teachers? Absolutely not. We have some. Just as Woodland, Dixon, Winters and West Sac have some excellent teachers.

    But do we reward excellence as excellence? No. Do we tolerate and reward mediocrity? Yes.

    Is the reason our test scores are higher than some neighboring districts’ due to the demands we put upon our teachers or the intrinsic qualities of our teachers? No. Is the main difference the educational background of Davis families? Yes.

    “As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast.”

    As a parent, you know the system from that perspective, which is credible. I know the system from the perspective of having grown up in Davis and attended Davis schools K-12 (as well as observing it as an adult for many years). The entire time I was a student in the Davis schools, our test scores were significantly higher than in all neighboring towns. (In fact, our test scores were relatively better when I was a student than they are today. Does that mean that teachers in Davis back then were much better than Davis teachers are today?) Were the Davis teachers the reason for this marginal difference? No. Some of the teachers were excellent. Some were unforgivably bad.

    I had a chemistry teacher in high school who was, or appeared to be, drunk almost every day. (Everyone knew this.) I had a U.S. history teacher at Davis High who was senile. At the same time, I had truly outstanding teachers in calculus, physics, journalism and U.S. government. Most were somewhere in between. My story is not unique. I’m sure everyone who went through high school anywhere had a mix of the good, bad and average.

    “Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par.”

    I never said or implied that our teachers are sub-par. Your infering this is a mistake on your part.

  147. “Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me.”

    I wrote: “With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators.”

    I did not intend that to be an “attack on Davis teachers.” If you take it that way, you have issues I don’t understand.

    Did I say that we don’t have some excellent teachers? Absolutely not. We have some. Just as Woodland, Dixon, Winters and West Sac have some excellent teachers.

    But do we reward excellence as excellence? No. Do we tolerate and reward mediocrity? Yes.

    Is the reason our test scores are higher than some neighboring districts’ due to the demands we put upon our teachers or the intrinsic qualities of our teachers? No. Is the main difference the educational background of Davis families? Yes.

    “As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast.”

    As a parent, you know the system from that perspective, which is credible. I know the system from the perspective of having grown up in Davis and attended Davis schools K-12 (as well as observing it as an adult for many years). The entire time I was a student in the Davis schools, our test scores were significantly higher than in all neighboring towns. (In fact, our test scores were relatively better when I was a student than they are today. Does that mean that teachers in Davis back then were much better than Davis teachers are today?) Were the Davis teachers the reason for this marginal difference? No. Some of the teachers were excellent. Some were unforgivably bad.

    I had a chemistry teacher in high school who was, or appeared to be, drunk almost every day. (Everyone knew this.) I had a U.S. history teacher at Davis High who was senile. At the same time, I had truly outstanding teachers in calculus, physics, journalism and U.S. government. Most were somewhere in between. My story is not unique. I’m sure everyone who went through high school anywhere had a mix of the good, bad and average.

    “Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par.”

    I never said or implied that our teachers are sub-par. Your infering this is a mistake on your part.

  148. “Rifkin’s attack on Davis teachers really rankles me.”

    I wrote: “With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators.”

    I did not intend that to be an “attack on Davis teachers.” If you take it that way, you have issues I don’t understand.

    Did I say that we don’t have some excellent teachers? Absolutely not. We have some. Just as Woodland, Dixon, Winters and West Sac have some excellent teachers.

    But do we reward excellence as excellence? No. Do we tolerate and reward mediocrity? Yes.

    Is the reason our test scores are higher than some neighboring districts’ due to the demands we put upon our teachers or the intrinsic qualities of our teachers? No. Is the main difference the educational background of Davis families? Yes.

    “As a parent of five kids who came up through DJUSD schools, I vehmently disagree with Rifkin’s blast.”

    As a parent, you know the system from that perspective, which is credible. I know the system from the perspective of having grown up in Davis and attended Davis schools K-12 (as well as observing it as an adult for many years). The entire time I was a student in the Davis schools, our test scores were significantly higher than in all neighboring towns. (In fact, our test scores were relatively better when I was a student than they are today. Does that mean that teachers in Davis back then were much better than Davis teachers are today?) Were the Davis teachers the reason for this marginal difference? No. Some of the teachers were excellent. Some were unforgivably bad.

    I had a chemistry teacher in high school who was, or appeared to be, drunk almost every day. (Everyone knew this.) I had a U.S. history teacher at Davis High who was senile. At the same time, I had truly outstanding teachers in calculus, physics, journalism and U.S. government. Most were somewhere in between. My story is not unique. I’m sure everyone who went through high school anywhere had a mix of the good, bad and average.

    “Mr. Rifkin, it is unfortunate that you feel that our teachers are sub-par.”

    I never said or implied that our teachers are sub-par. Your infering this is a mistake on your part.

  149. “In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes.”

    “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.
    As far as present-day development out in the “red-lined” district, there’s really nothing built there, except the fruit stand, some silos, as the previous poster noted, and a couple of small office buildings…and, of course, some of the most fertile agricultural soil in the world.
    Davis commenters and this blog (by, among other things, publicizing the hammer of recall hanging over the head of Yamada for her betrayal of Davis’s ecotopian values) did a great and wonderful thing keeping this particular development from getting built.

  150. “In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes.”

    “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.
    As far as present-day development out in the “red-lined” district, there’s really nothing built there, except the fruit stand, some silos, as the previous poster noted, and a couple of small office buildings…and, of course, some of the most fertile agricultural soil in the world.
    Davis commenters and this blog (by, among other things, publicizing the hammer of recall hanging over the head of Yamada for her betrayal of Davis’s ecotopian values) did a great and wonderful thing keeping this particular development from getting built.

  151. “In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes.”

    “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.
    As far as present-day development out in the “red-lined” district, there’s really nothing built there, except the fruit stand, some silos, as the previous poster noted, and a couple of small office buildings…and, of course, some of the most fertile agricultural soil in the world.
    Davis commenters and this blog (by, among other things, publicizing the hammer of recall hanging over the head of Yamada for her betrayal of Davis’s ecotopian values) did a great and wonderful thing keeping this particular development from getting built.

  152. “In all fairness the “red lines” on the study maps butt up against the east ends of El Macero and the Warmington subdivision of South Davis. All $600K to $1M+ homes.”

    “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.
    As far as present-day development out in the “red-lined” district, there’s really nothing built there, except the fruit stand, some silos, as the previous poster noted, and a couple of small office buildings…and, of course, some of the most fertile agricultural soil in the world.
    Davis commenters and this blog (by, among other things, publicizing the hammer of recall hanging over the head of Yamada for her betrayal of Davis’s ecotopian values) did a great and wonderful thing keeping this particular development from getting built.

  153. The perception of Davis schools, which contributes to the desirability of Davis property, is based on the test scores. One of the things people shopping for homes look at is the district test scores. Regardless of whether those scores result from the teachers or the demographics, having your kids go to school with smart kids is not an unreasonable choice.

    But my own experience as an involved parent was that the Davis district has more options and more support for those options. We had to choose on an annual basis between the Davis and Dixon schools, and at one point had to fight to keep our kids in DJUSD when the district tried to throw them out (we were interdistrict transfers).

    Both my kids made use of the independent study program at DSIS, and it is far beyond anything neighboring districts offer. DaVinci has attracted a lot of students. One child made use of both GATE and Special Ed, and at least the former is strongly supported in this district (ever tangled with GATE parents?!). The voters of DJUSD have routinely passed measures to provide enrichment programs.

    I’m not sure how you can “observe it as an adult” without a kid in the schools. What does that mean?

    It is difficult to get rid of teachers who are drunk or senile for reasons that go beyond the district’s capabilities. One of my son’s teachers had a mental breakdown in class, which the district handled with compassion and care. And I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Obviously your child’s education is as good as you make it. As a parent you can passively allow the district and teachers to educate your child, or you can actively participate. If you do choose to participate, I believe the DJUSD provides resources and supports choices beyond what you’re likely to find at other districts, at least based on my direct experience and comparison.

  154. The perception of Davis schools, which contributes to the desirability of Davis property, is based on the test scores. One of the things people shopping for homes look at is the district test scores. Regardless of whether those scores result from the teachers or the demographics, having your kids go to school with smart kids is not an unreasonable choice.

    But my own experience as an involved parent was that the Davis district has more options and more support for those options. We had to choose on an annual basis between the Davis and Dixon schools, and at one point had to fight to keep our kids in DJUSD when the district tried to throw them out (we were interdistrict transfers).

    Both my kids made use of the independent study program at DSIS, and it is far beyond anything neighboring districts offer. DaVinci has attracted a lot of students. One child made use of both GATE and Special Ed, and at least the former is strongly supported in this district (ever tangled with GATE parents?!). The voters of DJUSD have routinely passed measures to provide enrichment programs.

    I’m not sure how you can “observe it as an adult” without a kid in the schools. What does that mean?

    It is difficult to get rid of teachers who are drunk or senile for reasons that go beyond the district’s capabilities. One of my son’s teachers had a mental breakdown in class, which the district handled with compassion and care. And I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Obviously your child’s education is as good as you make it. As a parent you can passively allow the district and teachers to educate your child, or you can actively participate. If you do choose to participate, I believe the DJUSD provides resources and supports choices beyond what you’re likely to find at other districts, at least based on my direct experience and comparison.

  155. The perception of Davis schools, which contributes to the desirability of Davis property, is based on the test scores. One of the things people shopping for homes look at is the district test scores. Regardless of whether those scores result from the teachers or the demographics, having your kids go to school with smart kids is not an unreasonable choice.

    But my own experience as an involved parent was that the Davis district has more options and more support for those options. We had to choose on an annual basis between the Davis and Dixon schools, and at one point had to fight to keep our kids in DJUSD when the district tried to throw them out (we were interdistrict transfers).

    Both my kids made use of the independent study program at DSIS, and it is far beyond anything neighboring districts offer. DaVinci has attracted a lot of students. One child made use of both GATE and Special Ed, and at least the former is strongly supported in this district (ever tangled with GATE parents?!). The voters of DJUSD have routinely passed measures to provide enrichment programs.

    I’m not sure how you can “observe it as an adult” without a kid in the schools. What does that mean?

    It is difficult to get rid of teachers who are drunk or senile for reasons that go beyond the district’s capabilities. One of my son’s teachers had a mental breakdown in class, which the district handled with compassion and care. And I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Obviously your child’s education is as good as you make it. As a parent you can passively allow the district and teachers to educate your child, or you can actively participate. If you do choose to participate, I believe the DJUSD provides resources and supports choices beyond what you’re likely to find at other districts, at least based on my direct experience and comparison.

  156. The perception of Davis schools, which contributes to the desirability of Davis property, is based on the test scores. One of the things people shopping for homes look at is the district test scores. Regardless of whether those scores result from the teachers or the demographics, having your kids go to school with smart kids is not an unreasonable choice.

    But my own experience as an involved parent was that the Davis district has more options and more support for those options. We had to choose on an annual basis between the Davis and Dixon schools, and at one point had to fight to keep our kids in DJUSD when the district tried to throw them out (we were interdistrict transfers).

    Both my kids made use of the independent study program at DSIS, and it is far beyond anything neighboring districts offer. DaVinci has attracted a lot of students. One child made use of both GATE and Special Ed, and at least the former is strongly supported in this district (ever tangled with GATE parents?!). The voters of DJUSD have routinely passed measures to provide enrichment programs.

    I’m not sure how you can “observe it as an adult” without a kid in the schools. What does that mean?

    It is difficult to get rid of teachers who are drunk or senile for reasons that go beyond the district’s capabilities. One of my son’s teachers had a mental breakdown in class, which the district handled with compassion and care. And I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Obviously your child’s education is as good as you make it. As a parent you can passively allow the district and teachers to educate your child, or you can actively participate. If you do choose to participate, I believe the DJUSD provides resources and supports choices beyond what you’re likely to find at other districts, at least based on my direct experience and comparison.

  157. Corky – Of course Charlie Brown will have envelopes and materials for those in attendance, but the reason he is attending the Vanguard one year anniversary is because he knows the value, intellect, and support that the Vanguard draws.

    The “anonymous” person who posted and only offered slamming comments without debate sounded like nothing more than good ol’ “sour grapes.”

    Keep up the great work DPD! We’ve needed the Vanguard around for a long time and we’re glad you’re here now!

  158. Corky – Of course Charlie Brown will have envelopes and materials for those in attendance, but the reason he is attending the Vanguard one year anniversary is because he knows the value, intellect, and support that the Vanguard draws.

    The “anonymous” person who posted and only offered slamming comments without debate sounded like nothing more than good ol’ “sour grapes.”

    Keep up the great work DPD! We’ve needed the Vanguard around for a long time and we’re glad you’re here now!

  159. Corky – Of course Charlie Brown will have envelopes and materials for those in attendance, but the reason he is attending the Vanguard one year anniversary is because he knows the value, intellect, and support that the Vanguard draws.

    The “anonymous” person who posted and only offered slamming comments without debate sounded like nothing more than good ol’ “sour grapes.”

    Keep up the great work DPD! We’ve needed the Vanguard around for a long time and we’re glad you’re here now!

  160. Corky – Of course Charlie Brown will have envelopes and materials for those in attendance, but the reason he is attending the Vanguard one year anniversary is because he knows the value, intellect, and support that the Vanguard draws.

    The “anonymous” person who posted and only offered slamming comments without debate sounded like nothing more than good ol’ “sour grapes.”

    Keep up the great work DPD! We’ve needed the Vanguard around for a long time and we’re glad you’re here now!

  161. Anonymous said “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation. These were in the BOS package showing Davis proper in yellow and the “project” in red. What a stretch on your part!

  162. Anonymous said “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation. These were in the BOS package showing Davis proper in yellow and the “project” in red. What a stretch on your part!

  163. Anonymous said “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation. These were in the BOS package showing Davis proper in yellow and the “project” in red. What a stretch on your part!

  164. Anonymous said “Red Lines?” That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a “redlined” district would not be sold to a black.
    It’s par for the course, I guess, that the Tskoupoulous development would have been a “red-lined” one. Just another reason to have opposed this ill-fated development.

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation. These were in the BOS package showing Davis proper in yellow and the “project” in red. What a stretch on your part!

  165. I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Don, we don’t reward excellence as excellence. That is, when a teacher does a superior job, he or she is not paid more than his or her colleagues. However, what we do reward is longevity (up to a point). So a teacher who has been on the job 15 years makes more money than one who has been there five, regardless of performance.

  166. I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Don, we don’t reward excellence as excellence. That is, when a teacher does a superior job, he or she is not paid more than his or her colleagues. However, what we do reward is longevity (up to a point). So a teacher who has been on the job 15 years makes more money than one who has been there five, regardless of performance.

  167. I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Don, we don’t reward excellence as excellence. That is, when a teacher does a superior job, he or she is not paid more than his or her colleagues. However, what we do reward is longevity (up to a point). So a teacher who has been on the job 15 years makes more money than one who has been there five, regardless of performance.

  168. I’m not sure how we “reward mediocrity” if we don’t “reward excellence.”

    Don, we don’t reward excellence as excellence. That is, when a teacher does a superior job, he or she is not paid more than his or her colleagues. However, what we do reward is longevity (up to a point). So a teacher who has been on the job 15 years makes more money than one who has been there five, regardless of performance.

  169. Ok, I get that point. I think pay scale and raises are contractual issues. I doubt the teachers’ union would go along with merit pay, and I am unsure how you would measure ‘a superior job’ in a manner that would make it possible to set pay levels from it. More testing?

  170. Ok, I get that point. I think pay scale and raises are contractual issues. I doubt the teachers’ union would go along with merit pay, and I am unsure how you would measure ‘a superior job’ in a manner that would make it possible to set pay levels from it. More testing?

  171. Ok, I get that point. I think pay scale and raises are contractual issues. I doubt the teachers’ union would go along with merit pay, and I am unsure how you would measure ‘a superior job’ in a manner that would make it possible to set pay levels from it. More testing?

  172. Ok, I get that point. I think pay scale and raises are contractual issues. I doubt the teachers’ union would go along with merit pay, and I am unsure how you would measure ‘a superior job’ in a manner that would make it possible to set pay levels from it. More testing?

  173. Admittedly, there are problems with measuring teacher performance (particularly in subejects, such as Art, that don’t test well). However, I think principals, in general, have a good idea which teachers are doing the best, which are getting the most out of their students. I would lean toward teachers being graded by their principals on a series of objective and subjective criteria; and I would have a small committee of retired teachers (or other qualified people) oversee the principal’s grading, just to make sure the principal is fair and justified.

    Those teachers who regularly grade out the best should be rewarded. If some are regularly at the bottom and deemed incompetent, they should be replaced.

    But, of course, all of this is moot, as the unions (and their supporters) don’t want to reward excellence as such. And even moreso, they don’t want administrators to be able to easily remove bad teachers.

    The irony of teachers fighting being graded is that a big part of their job is grading their students. And while some subjects are purely objective, others involve a lot of subjectivity. Yet we place our faith in teachers that they will be fair when judging their students’ performances.

  174. Admittedly, there are problems with measuring teacher performance (particularly in subejects, such as Art, that don’t test well). However, I think principals, in general, have a good idea which teachers are doing the best, which are getting the most out of their students. I would lean toward teachers being graded by their principals on a series of objective and subjective criteria; and I would have a small committee of retired teachers (or other qualified people) oversee the principal’s grading, just to make sure the principal is fair and justified.

    Those teachers who regularly grade out the best should be rewarded. If some are regularly at the bottom and deemed incompetent, they should be replaced.

    But, of course, all of this is moot, as the unions (and their supporters) don’t want to reward excellence as such. And even moreso, they don’t want administrators to be able to easily remove bad teachers.

    The irony of teachers fighting being graded is that a big part of their job is grading their students. And while some subjects are purely objective, others involve a lot of subjectivity. Yet we place our faith in teachers that they will be fair when judging their students’ performances.

  175. Admittedly, there are problems with measuring teacher performance (particularly in subejects, such as Art, that don’t test well). However, I think principals, in general, have a good idea which teachers are doing the best, which are getting the most out of their students. I would lean toward teachers being graded by their principals on a series of objective and subjective criteria; and I would have a small committee of retired teachers (or other qualified people) oversee the principal’s grading, just to make sure the principal is fair and justified.

    Those teachers who regularly grade out the best should be rewarded. If some are regularly at the bottom and deemed incompetent, they should be replaced.

    But, of course, all of this is moot, as the unions (and their supporters) don’t want to reward excellence as such. And even moreso, they don’t want administrators to be able to easily remove bad teachers.

    The irony of teachers fighting being graded is that a big part of their job is grading their students. And while some subjects are purely objective, others involve a lot of subjectivity. Yet we place our faith in teachers that they will be fair when judging their students’ performances.

  176. Admittedly, there are problems with measuring teacher performance (particularly in subejects, such as Art, that don’t test well). However, I think principals, in general, have a good idea which teachers are doing the best, which are getting the most out of their students. I would lean toward teachers being graded by their principals on a series of objective and subjective criteria; and I would have a small committee of retired teachers (or other qualified people) oversee the principal’s grading, just to make sure the principal is fair and justified.

    Those teachers who regularly grade out the best should be rewarded. If some are regularly at the bottom and deemed incompetent, they should be replaced.

    But, of course, all of this is moot, as the unions (and their supporters) don’t want to reward excellence as such. And even moreso, they don’t want administrators to be able to easily remove bad teachers.

    The irony of teachers fighting being graded is that a big part of their job is grading their students. And while some subjects are purely objective, others involve a lot of subjectivity. Yet we place our faith in teachers that they will be fair when judging their students’ performances.

  177. “But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.”

    Mr. Rifkin, the two sentences above are taken verbatim from your original post. You may spin your statements as much as you like (and you are indeed very good at it), but the intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.

  178. “But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.”

    Mr. Rifkin, the two sentences above are taken verbatim from your original post. You may spin your statements as much as you like (and you are indeed very good at it), but the intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.

  179. “But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.”

    Mr. Rifkin, the two sentences above are taken verbatim from your original post. You may spin your statements as much as you like (and you are indeed very good at it), but the intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.

  180. “But that excellence is not due to the schools we have. It’s due to the children and their parents.”

    Mr. Rifkin, the two sentences above are taken verbatim from your original post. You may spin your statements as much as you like (and you are indeed very good at it), but the intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.

  181. Curious Observer wrote:

    “Anonymous said ‘Red Lines?’ That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a ‘redlined’ district would not be sold to a black.”

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation.

    —————————-
    Curious Observer:
    Well, we are dealing in subtleties of interpretation here. For example, what the commenter you quote above logically hinted at, with some irony which seems to have escaped you, by their use of the term “redline.”
    I would submit there’s more to this discussion than your facile reference to red lines on a map.
    For it is undeniable that developments such as the one proposed by Tskoupoulous are “master-planned” in terms of qualifying proposed inhabitants, as far as income level if not other demographic criteria which don’t confront homebuyers in older, established, less “structured” sections of town with more character than subdivisions full of faceless tract houses.
    What would have qualified a person or family to live in the prefabricated Tskapolous Town? Was there to have been a homeowners’ association? What codes, covenants and restrictions (“redlining” devils sometimes a-lurk in the details of those documents) would have had to have been signed by prospective homeowners?
    All questions of merely historical curiosity now, thank goodness, but interesting nonetheless.

  182. Curious Observer wrote:

    “Anonymous said ‘Red Lines?’ That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a ‘redlined’ district would not be sold to a black.”

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation.

    —————————-
    Curious Observer:
    Well, we are dealing in subtleties of interpretation here. For example, what the commenter you quote above logically hinted at, with some irony which seems to have escaped you, by their use of the term “redline.”
    I would submit there’s more to this discussion than your facile reference to red lines on a map.
    For it is undeniable that developments such as the one proposed by Tskoupoulous are “master-planned” in terms of qualifying proposed inhabitants, as far as income level if not other demographic criteria which don’t confront homebuyers in older, established, less “structured” sections of town with more character than subdivisions full of faceless tract houses.
    What would have qualified a person or family to live in the prefabricated Tskapolous Town? Was there to have been a homeowners’ association? What codes, covenants and restrictions (“redlining” devils sometimes a-lurk in the details of those documents) would have had to have been signed by prospective homeowners?
    All questions of merely historical curiosity now, thank goodness, but interesting nonetheless.

  183. Curious Observer wrote:

    “Anonymous said ‘Red Lines?’ That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a ‘redlined’ district would not be sold to a black.”

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation.

    —————————-
    Curious Observer:
    Well, we are dealing in subtleties of interpretation here. For example, what the commenter you quote above logically hinted at, with some irony which seems to have escaped you, by their use of the term “redline.”
    I would submit there’s more to this discussion than your facile reference to red lines on a map.
    For it is undeniable that developments such as the one proposed by Tskoupoulous are “master-planned” in terms of qualifying proposed inhabitants, as far as income level if not other demographic criteria which don’t confront homebuyers in older, established, less “structured” sections of town with more character than subdivisions full of faceless tract houses.
    What would have qualified a person or family to live in the prefabricated Tskapolous Town? Was there to have been a homeowners’ association? What codes, covenants and restrictions (“redlining” devils sometimes a-lurk in the details of those documents) would have had to have been signed by prospective homeowners?
    All questions of merely historical curiosity now, thank goodness, but interesting nonetheless.

  184. Curious Observer wrote:

    “Anonymous said ‘Red Lines?’ That’s what realtors used to do to prevent blacks from moving into certain neighborhoods back in the 1940s, ’50s and ’60s in places like Chicago. A home in a ‘redlined’ district would not be sold to a black.”

    The reference to the “red lines” were, I believe, taken from the photos on this blog on July 7th, and has nothing to do with your interpretation.

    —————————-
    Curious Observer:
    Well, we are dealing in subtleties of interpretation here. For example, what the commenter you quote above logically hinted at, with some irony which seems to have escaped you, by their use of the term “redline.”
    I would submit there’s more to this discussion than your facile reference to red lines on a map.
    For it is undeniable that developments such as the one proposed by Tskoupoulous are “master-planned” in terms of qualifying proposed inhabitants, as far as income level if not other demographic criteria which don’t confront homebuyers in older, established, less “structured” sections of town with more character than subdivisions full of faceless tract houses.
    What would have qualified a person or family to live in the prefabricated Tskapolous Town? Was there to have been a homeowners’ association? What codes, covenants and restrictions (“redlining” devils sometimes a-lurk in the details of those documents) would have had to have been signed by prospective homeowners?
    All questions of merely historical curiosity now, thank goodness, but interesting nonetheless.

  185. The intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.”

    I agree. My statement was simple:

    “Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent.”

    Any suggestion that I am attacking Davis teachers is fatuous.

  186. The intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.”

    I agree. My statement was simple:

    “Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent.”

    Any suggestion that I am attacking Davis teachers is fatuous.

  187. The intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.”

    I agree. My statement was simple:

    “Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent.”

    Any suggestion that I am attacking Davis teachers is fatuous.

  188. The intent of your original statement is quite clear and written for all to see.”

    I agree. My statement was simple:

    “Because so many children come from well educated families in Davis, or families that value educational achievement, many of our students are excellent.”

    Any suggestion that I am attacking Davis teachers is fatuous.

  189. Actually that is not all that you said.

    You also said:

    “I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. “

    The implication from that bolded statement is that if it is an issue that we do not demand excellence from our teachers, then obviously that is only an issue if we are not receiving excellent from our teachers. Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.

  190. Actually that is not all that you said.

    You also said:

    “I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. “

    The implication from that bolded statement is that if it is an issue that we do not demand excellence from our teachers, then obviously that is only an issue if we are not receiving excellent from our teachers. Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.

  191. Actually that is not all that you said.

    You also said:

    “I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. “

    The implication from that bolded statement is that if it is an issue that we do not demand excellence from our teachers, then obviously that is only an issue if we are not receiving excellent from our teachers. Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.

  192. Actually that is not all that you said.

    You also said:

    “I would put it in the negative. Davis is considered more desirable because the public schools in most other communities are far worse. Having graduated from the Davis schools (and kept up with what they have done since), I can’t agree that we have ‘excellent public schools.’

    With rare exceptions, we just don’t demand excellence from our teachers, students or administrators. “

    The implication from that bolded statement is that if it is an issue that we do not demand excellence from our teachers, then obviously that is only an issue if we are not receiving excellent from our teachers. Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.

  193. To various anonymous posters:

    What a bunch of Ding Dongs. How can you take a statement about the color of lines on a map and get up to secret covenants, home owner association hidden agendas, and Jim Crow policies? Use your fertile minds for something more constructive.

    Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

  194. To various anonymous posters:

    What a bunch of Ding Dongs. How can you take a statement about the color of lines on a map and get up to secret covenants, home owner association hidden agendas, and Jim Crow policies? Use your fertile minds for something more constructive.

    Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

  195. To various anonymous posters:

    What a bunch of Ding Dongs. How can you take a statement about the color of lines on a map and get up to secret covenants, home owner association hidden agendas, and Jim Crow policies? Use your fertile minds for something more constructive.

    Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

  196. To various anonymous posters:

    What a bunch of Ding Dongs. How can you take a statement about the color of lines on a map and get up to secret covenants, home owner association hidden agendas, and Jim Crow policies? Use your fertile minds for something more constructive.

    Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

  197. “Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.”

    Most people? You speak for most people? What arrogance.

    If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ. That is a fierce attack on the teachers of Woodland, Dixon, Winters, etc. And it is one I strongly disagree with. I am certain that the teachers at Woodland High work every bit as hard as the teachers at Davis High. I believe they have just as much pedagogical talent as well. I completely reject your attack on them.

  198. “Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.”

    Most people? You speak for most people? What arrogance.

    If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ. That is a fierce attack on the teachers of Woodland, Dixon, Winters, etc. And it is one I strongly disagree with. I am certain that the teachers at Woodland High work every bit as hard as the teachers at Davis High. I believe they have just as much pedagogical talent as well. I completely reject your attack on them.

  199. “Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.”

    Most people? You speak for most people? What arrogance.

    If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ. That is a fierce attack on the teachers of Woodland, Dixon, Winters, etc. And it is one I strongly disagree with. I am certain that the teachers at Woodland High work every bit as hard as the teachers at Davis High. I believe they have just as much pedagogical talent as well. I completely reject your attack on them.

  200. “Hence most people interpreted your statement as a criticism of teachers.”

    Most people? You speak for most people? What arrogance.

    If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ. That is a fierce attack on the teachers of Woodland, Dixon, Winters, etc. And it is one I strongly disagree with. I am certain that the teachers at Woodland High work every bit as hard as the teachers at Davis High. I believe they have just as much pedagogical talent as well. I completely reject your attack on them.

  201. “If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ.”

    Hold on skippy, I didn’t say anything. I merely questioned your statement and pointed out where the interpretations came from. The reference to “most people” refers to those who have question your statement and the meaning of it.

  202. “If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ.”

    Hold on skippy, I didn’t say anything. I merely questioned your statement and pointed out where the interpretations came from. The reference to “most people” refers to those who have question your statement and the meaning of it.

  203. “If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ.”

    Hold on skippy, I didn’t say anything. I merely questioned your statement and pointed out where the interpretations came from. The reference to “most people” refers to those who have question your statement and the meaning of it.

  204. “If anyone is attacking teachers, it is you. By saying that the higher test scores in Davis schools are due to the the teachers our district employs, then the lower test scores in neighboring districts must be due to the relatively poor teachers those districts employ.”

    Hold on skippy, I didn’t say anything. I merely questioned your statement and pointed out where the interpretations came from. The reference to “most people” refers to those who have question your statement and the meaning of it.

  205. vincente,

    if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, then why attack other people? rifkin puts up his views, argues them intelligently and you make idiotic replies for no good. i don’t understand what motivates your negativity.

  206. vincente,

    if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, then why attack other people? rifkin puts up his views, argues them intelligently and you make idiotic replies for no good. i don’t understand what motivates your negativity.

  207. vincente,

    if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, then why attack other people? rifkin puts up his views, argues them intelligently and you make idiotic replies for no good. i don’t understand what motivates your negativity.

  208. vincente,

    if you don’t have anything intelligent to say, then why attack other people? rifkin puts up his views, argues them intelligently and you make idiotic replies for no good. i don’t understand what motivates your negativity.

  209. There was no attack in my statement, I merely asked Rifkin a question. Other than calling him Skippy, I see nothing in my comments that can be construed as an attack on Rifkin.

  210. There was no attack in my statement, I merely asked Rifkin a question. Other than calling him Skippy, I see nothing in my comments that can be construed as an attack on Rifkin.

  211. There was no attack in my statement, I merely asked Rifkin a question. Other than calling him Skippy, I see nothing in my comments that can be construed as an attack on Rifkin.

  212. There was no attack in my statement, I merely asked Rifkin a question. Other than calling him Skippy, I see nothing in my comments that can be construed as an attack on Rifkin.

  213. Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate. You may now manipulate your meaning as much as you want, but left as it is, the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students. Deny and argue it all you want, but that is the meaning that your message conveyed.

    It is unfortunate that this discussion has denigrated into a ‘he said/she said’ tug of war. And the continual mainpulation of words and statements is tiresome.

    Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals. And as a parent of children who have gone through the elementary system, junior high schools, and high school, I have been nothing but pleased with the academic excellence we have received.

    Again, our API scores, STAR test results, graduation rates, AP exam pass rates, are just a few of the many successes one could point to of our school system. Yes – many of our children are fortunate to come from families and households that emphasize academic achievement and performance. At the same time, to suggest that this is the primary factor and that the teachers themselves are not a major component of this success, is a disservice to the hard work our teachers put forth. Together, they make it work.

    I have no doubt that there will be a ‘countering’ of my position by Mr. Rifkin, who, although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue. The school district’s scores and records stand on their own.

  214. Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate. You may now manipulate your meaning as much as you want, but left as it is, the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students. Deny and argue it all you want, but that is the meaning that your message conveyed.

    It is unfortunate that this discussion has denigrated into a ‘he said/she said’ tug of war. And the continual mainpulation of words and statements is tiresome.

    Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals. And as a parent of children who have gone through the elementary system, junior high schools, and high school, I have been nothing but pleased with the academic excellence we have received.

    Again, our API scores, STAR test results, graduation rates, AP exam pass rates, are just a few of the many successes one could point to of our school system. Yes – many of our children are fortunate to come from families and households that emphasize academic achievement and performance. At the same time, to suggest that this is the primary factor and that the teachers themselves are not a major component of this success, is a disservice to the hard work our teachers put forth. Together, they make it work.

    I have no doubt that there will be a ‘countering’ of my position by Mr. Rifkin, who, although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue. The school district’s scores and records stand on their own.

  215. Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate. You may now manipulate your meaning as much as you want, but left as it is, the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students. Deny and argue it all you want, but that is the meaning that your message conveyed.

    It is unfortunate that this discussion has denigrated into a ‘he said/she said’ tug of war. And the continual mainpulation of words and statements is tiresome.

    Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals. And as a parent of children who have gone through the elementary system, junior high schools, and high school, I have been nothing but pleased with the academic excellence we have received.

    Again, our API scores, STAR test results, graduation rates, AP exam pass rates, are just a few of the many successes one could point to of our school system. Yes – many of our children are fortunate to come from families and households that emphasize academic achievement and performance. At the same time, to suggest that this is the primary factor and that the teachers themselves are not a major component of this success, is a disservice to the hard work our teachers put forth. Together, they make it work.

    I have no doubt that there will be a ‘countering’ of my position by Mr. Rifkin, who, although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue. The school district’s scores and records stand on their own.

  216. Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate. You may now manipulate your meaning as much as you want, but left as it is, the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students. Deny and argue it all you want, but that is the meaning that your message conveyed.

    It is unfortunate that this discussion has denigrated into a ‘he said/she said’ tug of war. And the continual mainpulation of words and statements is tiresome.

    Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals. And as a parent of children who have gone through the elementary system, junior high schools, and high school, I have been nothing but pleased with the academic excellence we have received.

    Again, our API scores, STAR test results, graduation rates, AP exam pass rates, are just a few of the many successes one could point to of our school system. Yes – many of our children are fortunate to come from families and households that emphasize academic achievement and performance. At the same time, to suggest that this is the primary factor and that the teachers themselves are not a major component of this success, is a disservice to the hard work our teachers put forth. Together, they make it work.

    I have no doubt that there will be a ‘countering’ of my position by Mr. Rifkin, who, although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue. The school district’s scores and records stand on their own.

  217. Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

    Really? I didn’t know that. Must be the same crater where Rich Rifkin mined his “facts” concerning the teaching ability of Davis schoolteachers.

  218. Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

    Really? I didn’t know that. Must be the same crater where Rich Rifkin mined his “facts” concerning the teaching ability of Davis schoolteachers.

  219. Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

    Really? I didn’t know that. Must be the same crater where Rich Rifkin mined his “facts” concerning the teaching ability of Davis schoolteachers.

  220. Did you know the landing on the moon was faked also? Check it out, they found red lines around a crater that ATK was trying to buy. It must be true I heard someone say it.

    Really? I didn’t know that. Must be the same crater where Rich Rifkin mined his “facts” concerning the teaching ability of Davis schoolteachers.

  221. “the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students.”

    That is true. I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad. I simply stated, as you restate above, that the reason why test scores in Davis are relatively high for our region (today and going back as far as testing has been done) is not because of the Davis teachers, but rather because of the family backgrounds of the Davis students.

    “Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate.”

    That is not true. I enjoy a debate. I dislike a fight. You don’t know me at all if you think I enjoy fighting.

    “Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals.”

    Excellence is a relative term. I don’t discount the abilities of our teachers. Neither do I discount the abilities of Woodland’s teachers, who I am sure are just as good and work just as hard.

    Although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue.”

    I never said I am the expert or the authority. I don’t understand why you have to try to be so nasty with me.

    It is true that I don’t have kids. But I am not ignorant of our schools. I did attend the Davis schools K-12. And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).

    I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated. And I have spoken with them about their feelings about the teachers.

  222. “the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students.”

    That is true. I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad. I simply stated, as you restate above, that the reason why test scores in Davis are relatively high for our region (today and going back as far as testing has been done) is not because of the Davis teachers, but rather because of the family backgrounds of the Davis students.

    “Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate.”

    That is not true. I enjoy a debate. I dislike a fight. You don’t know me at all if you think I enjoy fighting.

    “Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals.”

    Excellence is a relative term. I don’t discount the abilities of our teachers. Neither do I discount the abilities of Woodland’s teachers, who I am sure are just as good and work just as hard.

    Although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue.”

    I never said I am the expert or the authority. I don’t understand why you have to try to be so nasty with me.

    It is true that I don’t have kids. But I am not ignorant of our schools. I did attend the Davis schools K-12. And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).

    I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated. And I have spoken with them about their feelings about the teachers.

  223. “the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students.”

    That is true. I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad. I simply stated, as you restate above, that the reason why test scores in Davis are relatively high for our region (today and going back as far as testing has been done) is not because of the Davis teachers, but rather because of the family backgrounds of the Davis students.

    “Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate.”

    That is not true. I enjoy a debate. I dislike a fight. You don’t know me at all if you think I enjoy fighting.

    “Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals.”

    Excellence is a relative term. I don’t discount the abilities of our teachers. Neither do I discount the abilities of Woodland’s teachers, who I am sure are just as good and work just as hard.

    Although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue.”

    I never said I am the expert or the authority. I don’t understand why you have to try to be so nasty with me.

    It is true that I don’t have kids. But I am not ignorant of our schools. I did attend the Davis schools K-12. And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).

    I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated. And I have spoken with them about their feelings about the teachers.

  224. “the implication of your original post was clear: the teachers of Davis, by and large, do not deserve the credit for the excellence of the students.”

    That is true. I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad. I simply stated, as you restate above, that the reason why test scores in Davis are relatively high for our region (today and going back as far as testing has been done) is not because of the Davis teachers, but rather because of the family backgrounds of the Davis students.

    “Mr. Rifkin, you sure do love a fight and debate.”

    That is not true. I enjoy a debate. I dislike a fight. You don’t know me at all if you think I enjoy fighting.

    “Like I stated before, the teachers of the Davis school district are an excellent group of professionals.”

    Excellence is a relative term. I don’t discount the abilities of our teachers. Neither do I discount the abilities of Woodland’s teachers, who I am sure are just as good and work just as hard.

    Although he himself does not have children in the school system, considers himself the authority and expert voice on the issue.”

    I never said I am the expert or the authority. I don’t understand why you have to try to be so nasty with me.

    It is true that I don’t have kids. But I am not ignorant of our schools. I did attend the Davis schools K-12. And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).

    I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated. And I have spoken with them about their feelings about the teachers.

  225. Rich: “And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).”

    Huh? Just starting with the high schools:

    http://www.sacmag.com/media/Sacramento-Magazine/May-2006/Rating-The-High-Schools/

    “I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated.”
    Basically, your evidence is anecdotal. So, do you know dozens of families with kids in other school districts?

  226. Rich: “And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).”

    Huh? Just starting with the high schools:

    http://www.sacmag.com/media/Sacramento-Magazine/May-2006/Rating-The-High-Schools/

    “I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated.”
    Basically, your evidence is anecdotal. So, do you know dozens of families with kids in other school districts?

  227. Rich: “And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).”

    Huh? Just starting with the high schools:

    http://www.sacmag.com/media/Sacramento-Magazine/May-2006/Rating-The-High-Schools/

    “I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated.”
    Basically, your evidence is anecdotal. So, do you know dozens of families with kids in other school districts?

  228. Rich: “And every year I attended, test scores in Davis were the best in the Sacramento area (something which is no longer true).”

    Huh? Just starting with the high schools:

    http://www.sacmag.com/media/Sacramento-Magazine/May-2006/Rating-The-High-Schools/

    “I also know dozens of families who either have kids in the Davis schools now or some who have recently graduated.”
    Basically, your evidence is anecdotal. So, do you know dozens of families with kids in other school districts?

  229. Don, Newsweek recently ranked the top 1200 high schools in the United States. Davis High was not in the top 1000. Mira Loma was number 361 and Rio Americano was 764.

    Also, based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High; and a number of Junior Highs and elementaries outside of Davis which beat ours. That is not to say that ours are not elite. I believe they are. Being the 1100th best high school in the U.S. is not chopped liver. My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area (and if I recall correctly, they were only bested back then in all of northern California by 4 or 5 Bay Area high schools).

  230. Don, Newsweek recently ranked the top 1200 high schools in the United States. Davis High was not in the top 1000. Mira Loma was number 361 and Rio Americano was 764.

    Also, based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High; and a number of Junior Highs and elementaries outside of Davis which beat ours. That is not to say that ours are not elite. I believe they are. Being the 1100th best high school in the U.S. is not chopped liver. My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area (and if I recall correctly, they were only bested back then in all of northern California by 4 or 5 Bay Area high schools).

  231. Don, Newsweek recently ranked the top 1200 high schools in the United States. Davis High was not in the top 1000. Mira Loma was number 361 and Rio Americano was 764.

    Also, based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High; and a number of Junior Highs and elementaries outside of Davis which beat ours. That is not to say that ours are not elite. I believe they are. Being the 1100th best high school in the U.S. is not chopped liver. My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area (and if I recall correctly, they were only bested back then in all of northern California by 4 or 5 Bay Area high schools).

  232. Don, Newsweek recently ranked the top 1200 high schools in the United States. Davis High was not in the top 1000. Mira Loma was number 361 and Rio Americano was 764.

    Also, based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High; and a number of Junior Highs and elementaries outside of Davis which beat ours. That is not to say that ours are not elite. I believe they are. Being the 1100th best high school in the U.S. is not chopped liver. My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area (and if I recall correctly, they were only bested back then in all of northern California by 4 or 5 Bay Area high schools).

  233. “I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad.” –Rich Rifkin

    Great comment Rich. Teaching is a profession in which, much more than most, subjectivity enters into the evaluation thereof.
    Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.
    Learning is already an experience fraught with enough difficulty as it is… –Brian Orr

  234. “I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad.” –Rich Rifkin

    Great comment Rich. Teaching is a profession in which, much more than most, subjectivity enters into the evaluation thereof.
    Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.
    Learning is already an experience fraught with enough difficulty as it is… –Brian Orr

  235. “I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad.” –Rich Rifkin

    Great comment Rich. Teaching is a profession in which, much more than most, subjectivity enters into the evaluation thereof.
    Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.
    Learning is already an experience fraught with enough difficulty as it is… –Brian Orr

  236. “I never attacked the teachers in Davis. I never said they were bad.” –Rich Rifkin

    Great comment Rich. Teaching is a profession in which, much more than most, subjectivity enters into the evaluation thereof.
    Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.
    Learning is already an experience fraught with enough difficulty as it is… –Brian Orr

  237. “My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area…”

    Davis tested higher than both of the schools you mention, based on the state API results. Now they do weight those results by factoring in the number of economically disadvantaged students and other demographic data, and on that basis ranked one of the schools higher and one of them lower. When you were in high school, I don’t think that kind of analysis was done. But Davis still scores higher than any other local schools on straight test scores — just as Davis did in your day.
    How Newsweek came up with their number, I have no idea. The state Dept of Education lists all the test scores for every school and district in the state.

    Your whole point seems to be
    –Davis schools used to be better (which is purely subjective)
    –even if Davis schools are good, it’s because of the students, not the teachers.
    Nonetheless, Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.

  238. “My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area…”

    Davis tested higher than both of the schools you mention, based on the state API results. Now they do weight those results by factoring in the number of economically disadvantaged students and other demographic data, and on that basis ranked one of the schools higher and one of them lower. When you were in high school, I don’t think that kind of analysis was done. But Davis still scores higher than any other local schools on straight test scores — just as Davis did in your day.
    How Newsweek came up with their number, I have no idea. The state Dept of Education lists all the test scores for every school and district in the state.

    Your whole point seems to be
    –Davis schools used to be better (which is purely subjective)
    –even if Davis schools are good, it’s because of the students, not the teachers.
    Nonetheless, Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.

  239. “My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area…”

    Davis tested higher than both of the schools you mention, based on the state API results. Now they do weight those results by factoring in the number of economically disadvantaged students and other demographic data, and on that basis ranked one of the schools higher and one of them lower. When you were in high school, I don’t think that kind of analysis was done. But Davis still scores higher than any other local schools on straight test scores — just as Davis did in your day.
    How Newsweek came up with their number, I have no idea. The state Dept of Education lists all the test scores for every school and district in the state.

    Your whole point seems to be
    –Davis schools used to be better (which is purely subjective)
    –even if Davis schools are good, it’s because of the students, not the teachers.
    Nonetheless, Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.

  240. “My only point in this regard is that when I was a student at Davis High, DHS had the best test scores in the greater Sacramento area…”

    Davis tested higher than both of the schools you mention, based on the state API results. Now they do weight those results by factoring in the number of economically disadvantaged students and other demographic data, and on that basis ranked one of the schools higher and one of them lower. When you were in high school, I don’t think that kind of analysis was done. But Davis still scores higher than any other local schools on straight test scores — just as Davis did in your day.
    How Newsweek came up with their number, I have no idea. The state Dept of Education lists all the test scores for every school and district in the state.

    Your whole point seems to be
    –Davis schools used to be better (which is purely subjective)
    –even if Davis schools are good, it’s because of the students, not the teachers.
    Nonetheless, Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.

  241. “Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.”

    I don’t know if it will mean anything going forward, but I was heartened to hear Barack Obama speaking yesterday when he advocated merit pay for teachers. I am a great believer in the importance of good teachers — particularly in the K-8 range — and I believe good teachers need to be paid much more money. Not only will that demonstrate that our society values the crucial role of teachers, but by rewarding the best of them we will attract more top-notch people to enter into and stay in the profession.

    “Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.”

    I have no disagreement with that at all.

    Also, in many ways I think the Davis schools are better today than they were back when I was a kid. I would have loved to have had the chance to get a Spanish immersion education. We never had anything like that… I was a part of the first group in the nascent GATE program (then called mentally gifted minors, MGM). It was a worthless program — at least for me. However, I have spoken with GATE teachers and parents and completely believe that what they have now really works…. Also, there is a much better and more extensive AP program at the high school than when I was a student.

    I’m not sure if the non-academic programs are better or worse, today. However, I know the young woman who runs the ag program is outstanding and is doing a superb job for her students. I’ve also met with the guy who runs the automotive program, and along with Toyota, I know he has a good program in place for his students. Nonetheless, I think our schools (including the Davis schools) generally don’t serve the interests of the non-college bound students very well. I don’t blame the teachers for this in any respect. I think it’s due in part to policies like No Child Left Behind and on the general concept that every kid should get a liberal, college prep education. That, in my opinion, is a mistake. I’d like children who are not academically oriented, starting in about the 9th grade, to have the chance to train for a profession (carpenter, mechanic, cook, plumber, electrician, etc.). So that when they leave high school, they are ready to enter the work world. But we seem to ignore these kids’ real interests, assuming that they will just pick up technical education in a junior college program. And that would be fine, but for the fact that many of these kids drop out of high school, get lost, and never get as far as junior college.

  242. “Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.”

    I don’t know if it will mean anything going forward, but I was heartened to hear Barack Obama speaking yesterday when he advocated merit pay for teachers. I am a great believer in the importance of good teachers — particularly in the K-8 range — and I believe good teachers need to be paid much more money. Not only will that demonstrate that our society values the crucial role of teachers, but by rewarding the best of them we will attract more top-notch people to enter into and stay in the profession.

    “Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.”

    I have no disagreement with that at all.

    Also, in many ways I think the Davis schools are better today than they were back when I was a kid. I would have loved to have had the chance to get a Spanish immersion education. We never had anything like that… I was a part of the first group in the nascent GATE program (then called mentally gifted minors, MGM). It was a worthless program — at least for me. However, I have spoken with GATE teachers and parents and completely believe that what they have now really works…. Also, there is a much better and more extensive AP program at the high school than when I was a student.

    I’m not sure if the non-academic programs are better or worse, today. However, I know the young woman who runs the ag program is outstanding and is doing a superb job for her students. I’ve also met with the guy who runs the automotive program, and along with Toyota, I know he has a good program in place for his students. Nonetheless, I think our schools (including the Davis schools) generally don’t serve the interests of the non-college bound students very well. I don’t blame the teachers for this in any respect. I think it’s due in part to policies like No Child Left Behind and on the general concept that every kid should get a liberal, college prep education. That, in my opinion, is a mistake. I’d like children who are not academically oriented, starting in about the 9th grade, to have the chance to train for a profession (carpenter, mechanic, cook, plumber, electrician, etc.). So that when they leave high school, they are ready to enter the work world. But we seem to ignore these kids’ real interests, assuming that they will just pick up technical education in a junior college program. And that would be fine, but for the fact that many of these kids drop out of high school, get lost, and never get as far as junior college.

  243. “Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.”

    I don’t know if it will mean anything going forward, but I was heartened to hear Barack Obama speaking yesterday when he advocated merit pay for teachers. I am a great believer in the importance of good teachers — particularly in the K-8 range — and I believe good teachers need to be paid much more money. Not only will that demonstrate that our society values the crucial role of teachers, but by rewarding the best of them we will attract more top-notch people to enter into and stay in the profession.

    “Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.”

    I have no disagreement with that at all.

    Also, in many ways I think the Davis schools are better today than they were back when I was a kid. I would have loved to have had the chance to get a Spanish immersion education. We never had anything like that… I was a part of the first group in the nascent GATE program (then called mentally gifted minors, MGM). It was a worthless program — at least for me. However, I have spoken with GATE teachers and parents and completely believe that what they have now really works…. Also, there is a much better and more extensive AP program at the high school than when I was a student.

    I’m not sure if the non-academic programs are better or worse, today. However, I know the young woman who runs the ag program is outstanding and is doing a superb job for her students. I’ve also met with the guy who runs the automotive program, and along with Toyota, I know he has a good program in place for his students. Nonetheless, I think our schools (including the Davis schools) generally don’t serve the interests of the non-college bound students very well. I don’t blame the teachers for this in any respect. I think it’s due in part to policies like No Child Left Behind and on the general concept that every kid should get a liberal, college prep education. That, in my opinion, is a mistake. I’d like children who are not academically oriented, starting in about the 9th grade, to have the chance to train for a profession (carpenter, mechanic, cook, plumber, electrician, etc.). So that when they leave high school, they are ready to enter the work world. But we seem to ignore these kids’ real interests, assuming that they will just pick up technical education in a junior college program. And that would be fine, but for the fact that many of these kids drop out of high school, get lost, and never get as far as junior college.

  244. “Let’s give the teachers and the students a positive thought or three as September rapidly approaches.”

    I don’t know if it will mean anything going forward, but I was heartened to hear Barack Obama speaking yesterday when he advocated merit pay for teachers. I am a great believer in the importance of good teachers — particularly in the K-8 range — and I believe good teachers need to be paid much more money. Not only will that demonstrate that our society values the crucial role of teachers, but by rewarding the best of them we will attract more top-notch people to enter into and stay in the profession.

    “Davis schools are a big part of what draws people to buy houses here, and their reasons for doing so are reasonable. Based on objective measures Davis schools are excellent, and arguably better than those in surrounding districts — at least in terms of outcome.”

    I have no disagreement with that at all.

    Also, in many ways I think the Davis schools are better today than they were back when I was a kid. I would have loved to have had the chance to get a Spanish immersion education. We never had anything like that… I was a part of the first group in the nascent GATE program (then called mentally gifted minors, MGM). It was a worthless program — at least for me. However, I have spoken with GATE teachers and parents and completely believe that what they have now really works…. Also, there is a much better and more extensive AP program at the high school than when I was a student.

    I’m not sure if the non-academic programs are better or worse, today. However, I know the young woman who runs the ag program is outstanding and is doing a superb job for her students. I’ve also met with the guy who runs the automotive program, and along with Toyota, I know he has a good program in place for his students. Nonetheless, I think our schools (including the Davis schools) generally don’t serve the interests of the non-college bound students very well. I don’t blame the teachers for this in any respect. I think it’s due in part to policies like No Child Left Behind and on the general concept that every kid should get a liberal, college prep education. That, in my opinion, is a mistake. I’d like children who are not academically oriented, starting in about the 9th grade, to have the chance to train for a profession (carpenter, mechanic, cook, plumber, electrician, etc.). So that when they leave high school, they are ready to enter the work world. But we seem to ignore these kids’ real interests, assuming that they will just pick up technical education in a junior college program. And that would be fine, but for the fact that many of these kids drop out of high school, get lost, and never get as far as junior college.

  245. Don,

    I found this list here. It confirms my original thought “based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High.”

    SCHOOL-API score- Enrollment-Location
    West Campus-857 797 Sacramento, CA
    Oak Ridge-839 2094 El Dorado Hills, CA
    Granite Bay-830 2083 Granite Bay, CA
    Davis-829 1743 Davis, CA
    Folsom-828 2793 Folsom, CA
    Ponderosa-828 2062 Shingle Springs, CA
    Rocklin-827 2074 Rocklin, CA

    I have no idea where I could find the data which would show that when I was a student at Davis High (I graduated in 1982), DHS was the number one high school in the grater Sacramento region. However, my recollection is that, based on the tests we took back then, Davis was ranked first, Jesuit (a private school) was second, Country Day (another private school) was ranked third and Rio Americano was ranked fourth. I also recall that the distance between Davis and all other public schools back then was fairly large.

    So why do I think Davis was so much more dominant back then? Because a much larger percentage of students at Davis High School came from UC Davis families, and we had a much smaller percentage of children coming from low income broken families.

  246. Don,

    I found this list here. It confirms my original thought “based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High.”

    SCHOOL-API score- Enrollment-Location
    West Campus-857 797 Sacramento, CA
    Oak Ridge-839 2094 El Dorado Hills, CA
    Granite Bay-830 2083 Granite Bay, CA
    Davis-829 1743 Davis, CA
    Folsom-828 2793 Folsom, CA
    Ponderosa-828 2062 Shingle Springs, CA
    Rocklin-827 2074 Rocklin, CA

    I have no idea where I could find the data which would show that when I was a student at Davis High (I graduated in 1982), DHS was the number one high school in the grater Sacramento region. However, my recollection is that, based on the tests we took back then, Davis was ranked first, Jesuit (a private school) was second, Country Day (another private school) was ranked third and Rio Americano was ranked fourth. I also recall that the distance between Davis and all other public schools back then was fairly large.

    So why do I think Davis was so much more dominant back then? Because a much larger percentage of students at Davis High School came from UC Davis families, and we had a much smaller percentage of children coming from low income broken families.

  247. Don,

    I found this list here. It confirms my original thought “based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High.”

    SCHOOL-API score- Enrollment-Location
    West Campus-857 797 Sacramento, CA
    Oak Ridge-839 2094 El Dorado Hills, CA
    Granite Bay-830 2083 Granite Bay, CA
    Davis-829 1743 Davis, CA
    Folsom-828 2793 Folsom, CA
    Ponderosa-828 2062 Shingle Springs, CA
    Rocklin-827 2074 Rocklin, CA

    I have no idea where I could find the data which would show that when I was a student at Davis High (I graduated in 1982), DHS was the number one high school in the grater Sacramento region. However, my recollection is that, based on the tests we took back then, Davis was ranked first, Jesuit (a private school) was second, Country Day (another private school) was ranked third and Rio Americano was ranked fourth. I also recall that the distance between Davis and all other public schools back then was fairly large.

    So why do I think Davis was so much more dominant back then? Because a much larger percentage of students at Davis High School came from UC Davis families, and we had a much smaller percentage of children coming from low income broken families.

  248. Don,

    I found this list here. It confirms my original thought “based on test scores reported for the entire Sacramento area last school year, there were (if I remember correctly) 3 high schools which ranked higher than Davis High.”

    SCHOOL-API score- Enrollment-Location
    West Campus-857 797 Sacramento, CA
    Oak Ridge-839 2094 El Dorado Hills, CA
    Granite Bay-830 2083 Granite Bay, CA
    Davis-829 1743 Davis, CA
    Folsom-828 2793 Folsom, CA
    Ponderosa-828 2062 Shingle Springs, CA
    Rocklin-827 2074 Rocklin, CA

    I have no idea where I could find the data which would show that when I was a student at Davis High (I graduated in 1982), DHS was the number one high school in the grater Sacramento region. However, my recollection is that, based on the tests we took back then, Davis was ranked first, Jesuit (a private school) was second, Country Day (another private school) was ranked third and Rio Americano was ranked fourth. I also recall that the distance between Davis and all other public schools back then was fairly large.

    So why do I think Davis was so much more dominant back then? Because a much larger percentage of students at Davis High School came from UC Davis families, and we had a much smaller percentage of children coming from low income broken families.

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